Danish Minister of Justice and chief architect of the current Chat Control proposal, Peter Hummelgaard:
"We must break with the totally erroneous perception that it is everyone's civil liberty to communicate on encrypted messaging services."
Share your thoughts via https://fightchatcontrol.eu/, or to [email protected] directly.
Source: https://www.ft.dk/samling/20231/almdel/REU/spm/1426/index.htm
@ati1 @ondra @chatcontrol talk for reference: https://www.youtube.com/embed/HUEvRyemKSg?feature=oembed
transcript:
http://opentranscripts.org/transcript/coming-war-general-computation/
@qbe @ati1 @ondra @chatcontrol
if you look at the age verification app proposal from the EU, they are pretty much enforcing it in a way that you can only use the EU age verification apps if your phone passes Android integrity tests, which Google is changing in the next version to require developer verification for sideloading apps to your phone (i.e., only verified developers can create an app that can be sideloaded)
@qbe @ati1 @ondra @chatcontrol
meaning, if you have lots of sideloaded apps through F-Droid, your phone would probably fail integrity tests, which would not allow you to use the age verification app, locking you out of the service you want to access...
@ati1 @xinayder @ondra @chatcontrol I am not projecting my worst Fears, I am just pointing out that ANY implementation of this bullshit will either
* be so ineffective that moderately smart criminals can subvert it relatively easily
OR
* be so disruptive that it will require the police randomly coming to your house to have a look at your computer, or general computing being taken away from users, etc., which would destroy large parts of the IT industry.
There is no way around this. Its math.
@ati1 @xinayder @ondra @chatcontrol the hard part is making that clear to laypersons, the general populace, and politicians.
No-one should debate anyone on chat control without having thought about how to communicate this effectively.
You cannot prove that a computer is NOT doing a specific thing (halting Problem)
Trying to make a computer that can do everything _except_ illegal things is like trying to invent a wheel that can't be used in bank robbery get away - it doesn't work.
@ati1 @qbe @ondra @chatcontrol I don't know to which extent the EU will require the use of its age verification app/national implementations, but seeing how they have a dream of a techno-fascist surveillance state, I'd dare to say your assumptions are more likely to be correct.
this is all speculation, though.
@stooovie @chatcontrol They'd essentially have to in the end, though. There's a ton of encrypted communication tools already out there, including their source code. Mandating "chat control" would mean that anything that allows end-to-end encrypted communication between people would become illegal. What about the non-EU versions that won't comply? S/MIME or PGP encrypted mail? Etc. It all has to be banned as well, right?
As @qbe just wrote: https://chaos.social/@qbe/115208564779298861
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] they can't. They would have to basically outlaw non-approved apps to be installed or used on any computer in Europe. Cory Doctorow has talked about this multiple times; authoritarians and Capitalists would love to put the Turing machine back into the proverbial bottle … but it doesn't work like that. You cannot exclude a Turing machine from doing "a specific thing". You cannot subtract features from a Turing machine, because it has only one feature: turing-completedness
@stooovie @ondra @chatcontrol granted, the EU can force companies operating within EU to comply. But that just means that specifically the "criminal communication" which CC were supposed to catch, would immediately move to the dozens of already existing open-source E2E messaging solutions.
So CC would only work in the way that they specifically claim it wouldn't; to create a broad surveillance machine.
For anything else, they would have to take away our general computation, which they can't.
@onterof @stooovie @ondra @chatcontrol the problem is, the regulation not working will not lead them to rethink their approach, it will lead them to even more drastic regulation.
We have seen it happen with copyright. Watch the 28c3 Cory Doctorow talk.
I think we need to point out to politicians that any kind of "prevent computer from computing X" or "prevent transmission of X over network" will NEVER work, and trying to make it work will destroy a lot of things
@ondra @chatcontrol Those guys are running absolutely into craziness.
The surveillance state didn't win in the past, and they won't win now.
@chatcontrol Fellas, is it erroneous to want PRIVACY? And must I remind you, oh so grand danish minister of justice and chief architect of the current Chat control proposal, Peter Hummelgaard, that PRIVACY is a human right?
This is laughable at worst. In some days, racism will also be debatable, it seems. What the fuck is going on.
@chatcontrol ahem,
Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 12, United Nations Convention on Migrant Workers Article 14, UN
Convention of the Protection of the Child Article 16, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights,
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights Article 17; regional conventions including Article 10 of the
African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child.
and Article 8 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms; Johannesburg Principles on National Security, Free Expression and Access to Information, Camden Principles on Freedom of Expression and Equality.
The Right to Privacy
in Denmark Submitted by Privacy International and IT-Political
Association of Denmark. (Pdf)
@chatcontrol Fuck this guy 🖕🏻
It is a BASIS of civil liberties that we have privacy and right to nonmonitored communication.
This is genuinely crazy from them
@chatcontrol The defence against stupidity like this is:
"You first."
Peter should feel free to post the contents of his eMail inbox, text messages, his phone's camera roll, or recordings of his phonecalls for everyone else to snoop on.
Until then, he should STFU.
But he won't, because he's exempted from surveillance -- his privacy remains intact.
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