This is unpopular opinion, but for Firefox to live, Mozilla, as it currently operates, needs to die.
They forgot their core user base hates cloud and AI features. They want a simple browser that connects to web servers and displays pages. Meanwhile, executive are getting fat salaries and bounces while begging users for money on AI and other privacy intrusion projects like adding perplexity directly to Firefox. They lost their vision long time ago.
The Perplexity AI will track users for targeted Ads while showing some Gen AI content when you search for something.
The whole point of using Firefox on Linux, or even Windows/macOS or mobile, is to avoid tracking and to maintain safety. How hard is that to understand? Why do they have "tech bro" style executives at a non-profit? They are treating it like a Silicon Valley app where you do everything to collect money. It makes me sick seeing how they are ruining their reputation.
@nixCraft is this about the integration of artificial intelligence in web browsers because I have not really been following these developments other than a lot of people switching browsers.
is Mozilla considering the same thing?
@XaetaCore @nixCraft Mozilla is experimenting with AI, question is, if they try to force it on the users.
Best practice is, that you use the Fork "Waterfox"
@XaetaCore @calvin_thefreak @nixCraft The problem with forking is that maintaining something as big and complicated as a browser takes significant effort. Maintenance is not sexy work. If Mozilla keels over, the forks can no longer depend on the upstream doing the heavy lifting.
I do not think a world with just one browser would be a nice prospect.
Keep in mind that, much as I hate what happens in the Mozilla board room, I'm not under any illusions regarding the competition. Especially if you see that most browser makers are unwilling and quite likely unable to make their own engine, so there's only a handful in Mozilla's league. If I ran Mozilla, I'd be hellbent on turning out a code base that would put chromium to shame, but alas, that is not how the dice rolled (and I'd prolly make a lousy manager too).
@bertdriehuis @XaetaCore @calvin_thefreak @nixCraft
The problem is Devs keep forking these monolith projects instead of making the micro-kernal of browsers, where you can plug in any credential system, or bookmark system, etc NOT using proprietary plugin formats.
All the browser should manage for credentials is sending the webpage url to the cred system, and the cred system providing a list that the browser interprets into a dropdown on whatever form for autofill.
Monoliths = pain in the ass
@nixCraft 100% agree
I would like to add that a substantial part of the funding for Firefox is coming from placements, mostly Google for beeng the default search engine.
Alphabet is interested in keeping Firefox alive only so that they dont get slapped on the wrist for having a monopoly with Chrome. They certainly dont want Firefox to be any better.
As long as there is no more ethical funding source i dont have much hope for Mozilla going in a better direction.
@sco_tty The #EU is putting money in #OpenWebSearch but it takes time to develop it: https://openwebsearch.eu/
They are also investing in #openSource solutions: https://interoperable-europe.ec.europa.eu/eu-oss-catalogue
@alper_yeg That's because not everything must be made by the state. π Search for #EuropeanAlternatives or follow @european_alternatives to get more European stuff before you cry about a shame.
We have two browsers made in Europe, @Vivaldi (Norway) and Mullvad (Sweden): https://european-alternatives.eu/category/web-browsers Mullvad VPN which can be combined with the browser is also on Mastodon @mullvadnet
@NatureMC @european_alternatives @Vivaldi @mullvadnet @sco_tty
I am not crying about anything. Let me rephrase to make it clearer, I wish there would be a browser engine developed in the EU. I am living in the EU and support EU developed tools. Additionally, I am aware of the alternatives.
There is a browser engine being developed in Europe, it's called Servo and it's being built by Igalia.
https://linuxfoundation.eu/newsroom/servo-web-rendering-engine-joins-linux-foundation-europe
People from Igalia are already contributing a lot to the development of other engines like Chromium, Firefox and WebKit.
https://www.igalia.com/technology/browsers
But Servo is not ready yet, it'll take some years (?). They are accepting donations though: https://opencollective.com/servo
Interview about Servo: https://www.igalia.com/chats/servo
@NatureMC @alper_yeg @european_alternatives @Vivaldi @mullvadnet
To be fair, both Vivaldi (based on Chromium) and Mullvad (based on Gecko) are great browsers, but none of them develop a browser engine of their own nor can they afford to deviate too far from their upstreams without causing much more maintenance work.
This will only keep going well as long as the engines themselves are not enshittified (remember Chromiums change from Manifest V2 to V3 and implications on Adblockers?)
@sco_tty @nixCraft Mozilla hasn't really changed direction in the last couple of years, they're still headed right down the toilet. The only difference I can see is the speed at which they are falling.
I have my doubts that they've reached terminal velocity yet... tho one can hope that there is a chance for them to figure out the parachute and even reverse course!
(My Β£0.28 would be on not tho imho)
I've said this before, but I'd happily pay $5/month for a maintenance fork of the current Firefox ESR that focuses only on security, bug fixes, and maybe performance.
*But only* if the people doing it are reliable and have the in-house resources to do this stuff correctly. That's the problem.
This is what I use for banking, so maintainers *must* have top-tier security people and testing infrastructure or I won't trust them.
@suetanvil @nixCraft That fork of the ESR would immediately fall out of support from websites, including banking, as soon as another ESR comes out.
Weβre in the Internet Explorer era again. #lang_en
@ArdentArchivist @nixCraft Sorry to hear that. I do not use Win11. I don't even use the official Win10 π You might wanna check ZEN browser. It is new in the field. But I warn you that it is different from all other browser and you not like it. You can check youtube review.
Personally, I use Vivaldi, Brave, and Floorp.
@jnk @visnudeva @nixCraft Given how much progress @servo has made in the last couple years (https://servo.org/wpt/), it's really the project I'm watching out for a future alternative.
Of course WPT tests may not be an accurate measure of how far you are from a fully usable & secure drop-in replacement browser, but given how fast Servo progresses with orders of magnitude less resources than Mozilla, there seems to be quite some scaremongering in "Firefox would die if Mozilla lost its 500M$ revenue" (not entirely surprising considering how much of that money is poured into execs pay & satellite features users don't care about).
@gendx @visnudeva @nixCraft @servo oh I'm definitely keeping an eye on them, and I really hope many potential browser developers are too!
IMO Mozilla needs to survive juust enough time for this to mature a bit more, then they can f^ck right off π
It's about where the money is coming from. If we really want a community-directed browser, it'll have to be community funded.
Otherwise, the sponsors will get what they ask for.
@nixCraft oh welp.. Time to get another throw-away account.
Thx for sharing!
Very concerned to read this, and equally outraged.
BUT is this a stealth addition, no trace or mention of it in the Settings? Because I just updated on one machine and did a fresh install on another: locked them down like I normally do, and there is no hint of anything AI anywhere in those settings. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
Which would make it even worse!
Is Perplexity something that is coming down the pipe, not yet spewed forth upon the masses? Or is it out in the wild?
@ArdentArchivist @nixCraft It'll just be another option in the list of default search engines, and yeah, in the pipeline still as far as I can tell.
Separately, Perplexity are making their own browser that will have lots of spying. but that'll be a Chromium fork.
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