Fictio Micron
Ned Yeung š
Code of Amor š@ned @3TomatoesShort I mean, it's what we are lied to about constantly. It's what the system says. Spoon feeds us. Fuck the system.
zombiecideć馬é@ned I think these two beliefs are harmonized via a belief in hierarchy. And, so my conclusion, that's what we need to deconstruct.
Gabriel Pettier@zombiecide @ned yeah, i've seen the idea that billionaires just have incredible work ethics, thrown around, and that certainly helps the two glue together, anyone who is not a billionaire is a slacker who will stop working as soon as their basic needs are fulfilled.
And by being so special, and so good for humanity, they deserve everything.
Of course, to believe that, you have to ignore a lot of facts, so i'm not sure how to go over that motivated reasoning.
I wonder if these people have ever had a manager in their life, or worked close with a company owner?
@ned @zombiecide good question indeed, some of the worst people i know are former bosses š
Little Detritus
Steven Reed@ned
"If we meet people's basic needs they'll stop working .. for other people" - I think this is the hidden real concern :(
"If we meet people's basic needs they'll stop working .. for other people" - I think this is the hidden real concern :(
Doug ššØš¦ 
@ned I know several people on assistance and all who can earn extra money do. Some people are too disabled to work and I don't begrudge them anything.
Maggie Maybe@Oldfartrant @ned yep, Iāve been on SSDI for almost 10 years now, after I got Medicare I got well enough to work part time. At that time I could earn $910 a month before Social Security would even count it for anything, so I did.
In 2021 I think that amount was up to $1050 a month, I had been at my part-time job since 2019 and I really enjoyed it. I was literally getting paid to read books because I sat in an office at an apartment complex where I just had to make sure there were no shenanigans in the gym or the pool area, I answered the phone if it rang, and I would show apartments if they were empty.
Beginning in 2020 they were never empty so I really just read books all day and they were fine with that, it was great.
Then in the summer of 2021 my boss decided he wasnāt going to ask tenants to wear masks if they came through the lobby because the CDC said they didnāt have to. So I quit my job. And I wonāt work again. If I get sicker I wonāt be able to clean my body or my apartment and I certainly donāt have enough income to pay for help.
chaosbastler@ned @timpritlove I guess the Argument is more that x % of the people would stop working. And that billionaires are in the (100-x) %.
Zeborah@chaosbastler Yeah I guess they think there are different kinds of people:
1) poor people who are poor because they're lazy and lounge about on welfare, so we need to motivate them to work by making them even poorer so they have no other choice
2) normal folk who *want* to lounge about but know their duty
3) rich people who are rich because they're geniuses working non-stop to create jobs for normal folk, restricted in this noble goal only by excessive tax and regulations
Clarapeix
Peter Hanecak@ned And then we can maybe try imagining how Earth would look like with 8 billions of billionaires.
Tushar Chauhan@ned To me it's the crux of the myth. Some people are built different. They have vision and a holy desire to better the human condition. They can pull on their bootstraps so hard that the earth poops its pants. But we are normal folk. We just need to follow and obey and work till our bones give out. We are the support staff and we only have serial numbers, not names.
@ned I donāt even know how people can say this after 2020.
Here in the US people who couldnāt go to work because of Covid mitigations were getting 60% of their income (except states have a max, so maybe not if theyāre HIGH earners) PLUS an extra $600 a week. So some of these people were making more money by not going to work, which I think is fantastic.
The part that blew my mind was that they were mad about it. Or maybe they were just screaming about it on social media so people wouldnāt get mad at them for forgetting extra money? It was the weirdest thing
Even when people were getting more money and unemployment than at work, and getting pandemic food stamps, and they had rental assistance available to them if they needed it, and they could have paid sick days if they were sick, some of these weirdos were still screaming about not being able to work.
So yeah, you canāt tell me that people would choose not to work.
This was my favorite tweet of 2020:
Tofu Golem@ned
North Koreans have nothing on us when it comes to indoctrination.
North Koreans have nothing on us when it comes to indoctrination.
This is Hell
Reinis Lazda@ned @kibrika I study human motivation, and your question is easy.
"Billionaires" is a very specific subgroup of people, and their characteristics cannot be generalized.
However, the problem with meeting the basic needs is that work (all types of it, including homework) gives the sense of fulfillment. People whose work is redundant, are expected to struggle with the sense of being useless.
For billionaires, this sense for various individual reasons is exaggerated.
Kibrika@ReinisLazda Es nesaprotu atbildi. Manu pamatvajadzÄ«bu apmierinÄÅ”ana nav mana darba iemesls. Tas var bÅ«t tas, kÄdÄļ es to daru, bet, ja man nevajadzÄtu to darÄ«t (jo UBI vai taml.), maniem priekÅ”niekiem joprojÄm vajadzÄtu kÄdu, kas to dara.
Uz ko attiecas pÄdÄjais teikums? BiljonÄri jÅ«tas Ä«paÅ”i nevajadzÄ«gi (viÅu vietÄ jau viss izdarÄ«ts)? KÄ tas saistÄs ar iespaidu, ka viÅi ir super-strÄdÄ«gi?
Uz ko attiecas pÄdÄjais teikums? BiljonÄri jÅ«tas Ä«paÅ”i nevajadzÄ«gi (viÅu vietÄ jau viss izdarÄ«ts)? KÄ tas saistÄs ar iespaidu, ka viÅi ir super-strÄdÄ«gi?
@kibrika Psihologu Ätikas kodekss aizliedz publiski apspriest konkrÄtus cilvÄkus, lÄ«dz ar to publiski nekomentÄÅ”u.
Tikai iztulkoÅ”u, lai nav pÄrpratumu:
"ProblÄma ar pamatvajadzÄ«bu apmierinÄÅ”anu ir tÄ, ka darbs (visi tÄ veidi) sniedz piepildÄ«juma sajÅ«tu. CilvÄki, kuru darbs ir nevajadzÄ«gs, jutÄ«sies lieki."
Par miljardieriem - viÅiem dažÄdu iemeslu dÄļ ir hipertrofÄta (neapmierinÄma) vajadzÄ«ba pÄc paÅ”apliecinÄÅ”anÄs.
@kibrika Protams, cilvÄki, kuri jau tÄpat jÅ«tas lieki, neizjutÄ«s starpÄ«bu, strÄdÄs viÅi vai nestrÄdÄs. TaÄu nepiecieÅ”amÄ«ba strÄdÄt nav tam iemesls, un darba atcelÅ”ana nemainÄ«s viÅu negatÄ«vo bÄzes paÅ”vÄrtÄjumu.
@ReinisLazda Nu, ok. Tad iespaids, ka pÄrbagÄtie ir strÄdÄ«gi nÄk no tÄ, ka pÄrbagÄtie cilvÄki aktÄ«vi paÅ”apliecinÄs radot strÄdÄ«guma iespaidu.
Man vÄl nesaslÄdzas, kÄ "ja bÅ«s UBI, tad taÄu neviens nestrÄdÄs" iet kopÄ ar to, ka cilvÄki, kuru darbs ir lieks, jÅ«tas lieki. UBI nepadara nevienu no darbiem/amatiem lieku. CilvÄkiem joprojÄm bÅ«s darbs un bÅ«s jÄstrÄdÄ. Tikai gadÄ«jumÄ, ja ir problÄmas to darÄ«t (veselÄ«ba, besÄ« tas, ko dara, taml.) tas neradÄ«s stresu par izdzÄ«voÅ”anu.
@ReinisLazda Man tieÅ”i Ŕķiet, ka tam "cilvÄki piesien savu vÄrtÄ«bu savam darbam" vajadzÄtu ļaut domÄt, ka "ja mÄs izmitinÄsim un paÄdinÄsim visus, viÅi joprojÄm gribÄs dod savu labumu, un kaut ko strÄdÄs".
@kibrika JÄ, sakarÄ«ba nav tik tieÅ”a. Tas ir apmÄram kÄ ar dziedÄÅ”anu un spÄlÄÅ”anu vs. mÅ«zikas ierakstiem un radio. TiklÄ«dz mÅ«zikas ieraksti kļuva brÄ«vi pieejami, tÄ cilvÄki pÄrstÄja dziedÄt, zaļumballÄs pÄrstÄja spÄlÄt dzÄ«vo mÅ«ziku. Un nomainÄ«jÄs repertuÄrs, rezultÄtÄ mainÄ«jÄs arÄ« dejas. Ne jau tÄ, ka pavisam - Å”ur tur kaut ko spÄlÄ un dejo. Bet lielÄs lÄ«nijÄs.
Tikai ar to atŔķirÄ«bu, ka vajadzÄ«ba justies noderÄ«gam caur savu darbu, savÄm pÅ«lÄm, ir cilvÄka pamatvajadzÄ«ba.
@kibrika UPI ir pietiekami neskaidri formulÄts, lai vispÄr nebÅ«tu skaidrs, ko kurÅ” kurÄ brÄ«dÄ« ar to domÄ. Ja tas ir garantÄtais minimÄlais ienÄkums, tad tÄds LatvijÄ jau ir. Ja tÄ ir cita neliela summa, kas tiek izmaksÄta visiem, bet neatÅem nepiecieÅ”amÄ«bu strÄdÄt, tad ir lÄ«dzÄ«gi. Å ie ir tipiskie UPI veidi, kÄdi tiek pÄtÄ«ti.
Bet interneta diskusijÄs nereti tiek iztÄlots Ä«paÅ”i utopisks UPI variants, kas nodroÅ”ina pietiekamu ienÄkumu lÄ«meni, lai nestrÄdÄtu.
@kibrika Å Äda pÄdÄjÄ UPI gadÄ«jumÄ strÄdÄt zÅ«d jÄga, proti, ar darba rezultÄtu apkÄrtÄjo cieÅu vairs neiemantosi. JÄ, miljardieri turpinÄs strÄdÄt, vÄl dažas kategorijas turpinÄs, bet kopumÄ zudÄ«s darba vÄrtÄ«ba, uz cÄ«tÄ«gi strÄdÄjoÅ”ajiem sabiedrÄ«ba skatÄ«sies ar neizpratni un izsmieklu. LÄ«dzÄ«gi kÄ bija PSRS. CilvÄki kritÄ«s depresijÄ, sÄks nodzerties vai citÄdos veidos bÄgs no realitÄtes. SabiedrÄ«ba sabruks.
@kibrika Ideja, ka tie, kas negribÄs, varÄs nestrÄdÄt un UPI sniegs pietiekamu atbalstu, bet citi varÄs strÄdÄt - nÄ, tur gali neiet kopÄ. Vai nu UPI bÅ«s tik mazs, ka kaut cik cieÅ”amai dzÄ«vei nepietiks, vai inflÄcijas rezultÄtÄ tas tÄds kļūs (lai piesaistÄ«tu darbiniekus, uzÅÄmumi cels algas, kas radÄ«s inflÄciju un padarÄ«s UPI mazu), vai bÅ«s komunisms ar regulÄtÄm algÄm. Visi citi varianti ir absurdi no ekonomikas likumsakarÄ«bu viedokļa. This math ain't mathin'.
@kibrika JÄ, var bÅ«t mÄrÄ·Äts atbalsts tiem, kuru potenciÄls paÅ”laik netiek efektÄ«vi izmantots. Bet tas vairs nav UPI. Un lielÄs lÄ«nijÄs tÄdas atbalsta iespÄjas jau pastÄv, tikai nedarbojas tik efektÄ«vi, cik mums gribÄtos. JÄ, tieÅ”i par Ŕīs jau eksistÄjoÅ”Äs sistÄmas pilnveidoÅ”anu bÅ«tu jÄcÄ«nÄs.
Bet UPI ir mÄneklis ekonomiski un psiholoÄ£iski neizglÄ«totiem cilvÄkiem.
@ReinisLazda Å is, laikam, paskaidro to daļu, ko es nesapratu. Bet no tiem pÄris teikumiem to grÅ«ti uztvert.
Why Not Zoidberg? š¦@ned You see, due to Capitalism, the belief that "if you are rich you are obviously smarter and more hard working than other people by definition" is deeply ingrained in the system itself.
If the system tells you you can become rich by "making all the right choices", these people are obviously always making "the right choices" and are therefore smarter than the masses.
Laberpferd@WhyNotZoidberg
Exactly this
å@ned Theyāll stop working for non livable pay under awful conditions. Which is good!
To the salt mines with the billionaires. Let them work of the billions others made for them.
FreieSoftwareOG