Mastodawn

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Welcome to today's thread - #CrossChannelRail Day 19 - 4 April - Paris - Charles de Gaulle - Marne la Vallée-Chessy - Lyon - Ravières

On the agenda today:
Stations
Charles de Gaulle
Marne-la-Vallée Chessy

Trains
Hitachi ETR 1000

Today's routes on the routes map: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#7/47.277/4.543

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

This morning‘s #CrossChannelRail news: HS1 is to offer financial incentives to new operator (also to Eurostar for new routes) in an effort to boost traffic https://www.ft.com/content/b0cb1698-d017-48dc-808d-c2d5ebf4bc8f

Cross-Channel rail owner to offer incentives for new operators

London St Pancras Highspeed, the former HS1, aims to attract more train companies and encourage extra Eurostar services

Financial Times

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

And if you want a less clear but not paywalled version of the HS1 charges news, here’s The Guardian #CrossChannelRail https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/apr/04/cross-channel-train-services-to-be-cheaper-to-run-as-operator-cuts-charges

Cross-Channel train services to be cheaper to run as operator cuts charges

LSPH chief executive announces ‘groundbreaking proposal’ intended to grow international rail travel from the UK

The Guardian

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Had to do some non- #CrossChannelRail calls but now I’m on my way to ✈️ Charles de Gaulle Airport

Ticket is €13

I support airport surcharges but I’m not flying anywhere! 😀

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Here’s this morning‘s #CrossChannelRail intro video. Forgot to post it in the thread! https://peertube.netzbegruenung.de/w/jRB7w7NhpMcps9YkWa9or6

#CrossChannelRail live stream - 4/4/2025, 5:54:08 AM

PeerTube

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Why has the RER abandoned putting maps on its platforms? They’re useful! #CrossChannelRail

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Paris Nord RER #CrossChannelRail

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Handy visuals here #CrossChannelRail

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

What a mess. SNCF isn’t content with ticket barriers at CDG exiting the RER, so station a bunch of staff for a *further control* which makes exiting the escalators dangerous. Well done! FFS. 😡 #CrossChannelRail

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Whether you could run #CrossChannelRail from here I don’t know. What I do know is you shouldn’t try. This station - to board two TGVs - is already hell.

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Extra credit to this SNCF employee. She’s scanning tickets only for some other TGV, so happily sends passengers to the back of the long OUIGO queue instead. She could instead you know *help* and just scan them? It’s all SNCF Voyageurs!

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Oh and we had some passenger profiling from Sureté Ferroviaire, happy to single out a young black guy for a bag check

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

This person covering their head, I presume asleep, has the right idea. Shield yourself from this mess - I get you!

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

And off OUIGO to Marne La Vallée Chessy

Thank goodness I’m not going all the way to Toulon on this!

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

High speed train

Slow speed boarding

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

If I’ve counted it right they have 17 staff to check inOui and OUIGO tickets before passengers get to the platforms here at Marne La Vallée Chessy. Strikes me as… rather a lot!

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

You can see how Marne La Vallée Chessy worked for #CrossChannelRail

Pic 1: the terminal
Pic 2: escalators secured with kind of fences, as in Lille
Pic 3: glass divider on the platform

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

And here’s SNCF inviting harassment of passengers by telling them to display sensitive information

No, legally you DO NOT need to put a mobile number on your luggage!

How dare SNCF exceed what’s legally necessary in this publicity?

So my little tour of the eastern edges of Paris is done

RER back into the city now!

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Arriving at Paris Gare de Lyon - the station for high speed trains to France‘s second and third cities Marseille and Lyon… and there are 4 trains in the next hour.

FOUR

That’s it.

The chronically under utilised capacity on French rail, off peak, makes me annoyed.

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

And 2 of the 4 trains this hour at Paris Gare de Lyon are regional ones

So just 2 high speed departures

Compare that to Milano Centrale with 8 departures, or Frankfurt (Main) Hbf with a dozen

(Oh and DB doesn’t show Italo. So the Milano total will be higher still)

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

And when SNCF goes whining to the Italian competition authority it can’t get the paths it wants in Italy, pause a moment: Italian high speed lines and stations are quite full, all day

By contrast SNCF Réseau can‘t refuse Trenitalia an off peak path in France when nothing else is going

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Trenitalia meanwhile needs 8 staff to board one 8 carriage Frecciarossa 🤷‍♂️

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

So you can board a full Frecciarossa in 11 minutes, from a terminus gate at Gare de Lyon, with staff checking tickets instead of using ticket barriers

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

However Frecciarossa seats are designed for short people. I’m 1m 83 tall, and the seat comes only to the base of my skull. Seat is comfortable until there though! 🙂

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

It’s smooth at 300km/h, not quite as good as a TGV though

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

There are some design choices made by Trenitalia for the interior that make little sense

Worst: luggage space. Most carriages have no rack for large bags at all! What were they thinking?

They don’t sell 2 seats per carriage as a temporary solution for this

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Thankfully the overhead racks are generous. Not quite as good as Talgo, but still very good.

The noise level on board is fine. The air quality good. Toilets and vestibules well designed. Gangways between carriages wide.

Put some luggage racks in, and replace linoleum floors with carpet and you’d have an excellent train.

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

France tangent: Bourgogne Franche Comté reduction cards have not been working on SNCF for a week or so, despite SNCF issuing them AFAIK

Now all holders have received an email telling them to… 🥁… use another SNCF website to book instead

Well done everyone!

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Now on the final train home, Dijon to Nuits-sous-Ravières

It’s packed

But there *are seats* - but passengers put bags on them

I don’t know what’s more stupid: doing that to deny passengers a seat, or passengers refusing to ask passengers move bags?

I asked, got a grumpy 🤷‍♂️ but the passenger complied and I have a seat

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Spent the past couple of hours working on the data, as so many of my #CrossBorderRail plans changed in the past couple of days

The map I travelled is now more or less right: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#6/48.973/2.845

But all the train assessments will follow sometime, tomorrow if I have the energy!

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

And just one more station of #CrossBorderRail to go... Montbard now, 10 mins to Nuits-sous-Ravières and then 2km bike home

And then this monster will no doubt be sat on my knee within 2 minutes of my arrival!

Thanks for following all of this crazy project this past three weeks. I need a bit of a rest, but there will be a lot more soon!

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

SNCF: bags without a label are a big danger! Announce! Fine! Act!

Also SNCF: passenger blocking doors (an escape route) with 4 bags. 🤷‍♂️

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

Yep. Home

Walter van Holst Apr 4, 2025

@jon Quite the unit!

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

@whvholst that’s a back leg there not a fat stomach!

Walter van Holst Apr 4, 2025

@jon I was not fat shaming your cat!

Orange Menace Apr 4, 2025

@jon home is where the 🐈 is

Sven A. Schmidt Apr 4, 2025

@jon Awww 🥰

Maartje Apr 4, 2025

@jon if a german zugchef saw that the train would be required to be cancelled….

Liminal witch 🧙‍♀️ Sarah Apr 4, 2025

@jon That's not the biggest stupidity I've seen on France bound train.

I have retractable utility knife in my backpack. In Barcelona they confiscated all replacement blades and left me with the one in the knife.

Peter Brown Apr 4, 2025

@jon I suppose the alternative is to sit on their bag

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

@peterbrown Massive racks, and a multi use area. Stack the bags there!

This isn't the UK, the trains have proper luggage space!

gehsteiger Apr 4, 2025

@jon
I once heard the following announcement on the DB ICE: "Please remove your bags from the seats next to you. Your fellow passengers are not called Gucci or Louis Vuitton."

Kiudecan Apr 4, 2025

@12train est ce quelque-chose sur lequel les plateforme d'achat 12train a eu un avantage ?

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

@kiudecan @12train I imagine it’s some wider API issue.

Jean-Baptiste 1.2.Train Apr 4, 2025

@kiudecan @12train Same issue here.

orangerkater Apr 4, 2025

@jon this is so absurd. This is the same France that recognized the importance of digitalisation and provides FTTH no matter how remote a home is.

🇺🇦🇪🇺 cweickhmann Apr 4, 2025

@jon ... somewhat self-inflicted tbh though

Wrzlbrnft Apr 4, 2025

@jon I like them. (1m85 though 😅 )

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

@wrzlbrnft the seat is otherwise good!

Maartje Apr 4, 2025

@jon only 8… cute my LNER service had 3 attendands per first class cardiage

Martin Hoffmann Apr 4, 2025

@maartje @jon I don’t think any of them are on-board staff.

(But yes, LNER’s first class service is pretty insane.)

Cycling on Rails Apr 4, 2025

@jon Don't worry, French Renfe does too! https://mastodon.social/@cycling_on_rails/113288899584053788

Which I'm fine with insofar as their average staff is welcoming and helpful rather than suspecting you.

Braid in trains

- solidarity with

@jon Have you considered Thalys ? Even worse.

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

@lewd multiple wrongs don’t make a right!

Braid in trains

- solidarity with

@jon True 🤪. Btw. I'm really surprised how Strasbourg has more TGV trains than Paris-Lyon (both gare and the line).

Braid in trains

- solidarity with

@jon 46 mainline trains leaving Strasbourg per day versus 98 Paris Gare de Lyon - wait, that's more than 2 per hour 🤔 ?

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

@lewd no. Off peak it’s empty. There are more at peak of course!

Braid in trains

- solidarity with

@jon Heck. Well.

Maartje Apr 4, 2025

@jon (or a night train…

)

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

@maartje but maintenance! But (non existent) freight! But… errr… you mean you want to run long distance not high speed? Can’t compute.

Maartje Apr 4, 2025

@jon maintenance at night and in between rush times… i have seen literal baguettes that need less track maintenance 😂

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

@maartje ah but it’s the silly Régions paying for those. Oh and you don’t actually do maintenance. You just need a slot to do so in case you have to. Obviously!

Maartje Apr 4, 2025

@jon we’d buid TGV Duplex couchettes if high speed tracks weren’t closed every night 😂

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

@maartje passengers asleep cannot keep an eye on their bags. So no.

Maartje Apr 4, 2025

@jon no worries i can lock them up with the aid of one square key 😂

波鉄 (Hatetsu)Apr 4, 2025

@jon @maartje inb4 they announce the withdrawal of the remaining Intercités de nuit citing this exact reason

Martin Hoffmann Apr 4, 2025

@jon Not quite fair, but comparing with any London terminal will solve that.

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

@partim well London terminals would have loads of IC category trains. Here there are none of those.

Martin Hoffmann Apr 4, 2025

@jon Looks like LNER has four departures from Kings Cross in hour 12 and five in hour 13.

Dave Saunders Apr 4, 2025

@partim @jon
Timetable for King's Cross hour 12
LNER 12:00 12:03 12:06 12:30 12:33
LUMO 12:18
GC 12:56

Dave Saunders Apr 4, 2025

@partim @jon https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/ecm1#T_KNGX

Link to live signalling diagram.

Live map of Kings Cross and Moorgate to Hitchin

See trains move in real-time on our live map of Kings Cross and Moorgate to Hitchin

OpenTrainTimes

James Jefferies Apr 4, 2025

@jon might see you there, just left Dijon and heading in for the RER dash for the Eurostar - plus we need to pick up a Navigo card for the kid 😬 - not looking forward to that!

Jon Worth Apr 4, 2025

@jamesjefferies damn missed this. Sorry! I hope it all worked out - Navigo queues were OK earlier at least!

James Jefferies Apr 4, 2025

@jon yep, we made it, now in the usual queue at PGdN with people getting all agitated at the Q system!

Guillaume Rischard Apr 4, 2025

@jamesjefferies @jon you can store two navigo on one phone these days

James Jefferies Apr 4, 2025

@grischard @jon yes, we’ve done that for the adults, but our 12 year old cannot use Apple wallet or Pay, so we need a physical card 😃 - I think