Welcome to today's thread - #CrossChannelRail Day 19 - 4 April - Paris - Charles de Gaulle - Marne la Vallée-Chessy - Lyon - Ravières

On the agenda today:
Stations
Charles de Gaulle
Marne-la-Vallée Chessy

Trains
Hitachi ETR 1000

Today's routes on the routes map: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#7/47.277/4.543

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap
This morning‘s #CrossChannelRail news: HS1 is to offer financial incentives to new operator (also to Eurostar for new routes) in an effort to boost traffic https://www.ft.com/content/b0cb1698-d017-48dc-808d-c2d5ebf4bc8f
Cross-Channel rail owner to offer incentives for new operators

London St Pancras Highspeed, the former HS1, aims to attract more train companies and encourage extra Eurostar services

Financial Times
And if you want a less clear but not paywalled version of the HS1 charges news, here’s The Guardian #CrossChannelRail https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/apr/04/cross-channel-train-services-to-be-cheaper-to-run-as-operator-cuts-charges
Cross-Channel train services to be cheaper to run as operator cuts charges

LSPH chief executive announces ‘groundbreaking proposal’ intended to grow international rail travel from the UK

The Guardian

Had to do some non- #CrossChannelRail calls but now I’m on my way to ✈️ Charles de Gaulle Airport

Ticket is €13

I support airport surcharges but I’m not flying anywhere! 😀

Here’s this morning‘s #CrossChannelRail intro video. Forgot to post it in the thread! https://peertube.netzbegruenung.de/w/jRB7w7NhpMcps9YkWa9or6
#CrossChannelRail live stream - 4/4/2025, 5:54:08 AM

PeerTube
Why has the RER abandoned putting maps on its platforms? They’re useful! #CrossChannelRail
Paris Nord RER #CrossChannelRail
Handy visuals here #CrossChannelRail
What a mess. SNCF isn’t content with ticket barriers at CDG exiting the RER, so station a bunch of staff for a *further control* which makes exiting the escalators dangerous. Well done! FFS. 😡 #CrossChannelRail
Whether you could run #CrossChannelRail from here I don’t know. What I do know is you shouldn’t try. This station - to board two TGVs - is already hell.
Extra credit to this SNCF employee. She’s scanning tickets only for some other TGV, so happily sends passengers to the back of the long OUIGO queue instead. She could instead you know *help* and just scan them? It’s all SNCF Voyageurs!
Oh and we had some passenger profiling from Sureté Ferroviaire, happy to single out a young black guy for a bag check
This person covering their head, I presume asleep, has the right idea. Shield yourself from this mess - I get you!

And off OUIGO to Marne La Vallée Chessy

Thank goodness I’m not going all the way to Toulon on this!

High speed train

Slow speed boarding

If I’ve counted it right they have 17 staff to check inOui and OUIGO tickets before passengers get to the platforms here at Marne La Vallée Chessy. Strikes me as… rather a lot!

You can see how Marne La Vallée Chessy worked for #CrossChannelRail

Pic 1: the terminal
Pic 2: escalators secured with kind of fences, as in Lille
Pic 3: glass divider on the platform

And here’s SNCF inviting harassment of passengers by telling them to display sensitive information

No, legally you DO NOT need to put a mobile number on your luggage!

How dare SNCF exceed what’s legally necessary in this publicity?

So my little tour of the eastern edges of Paris is done

RER back into the city now!

Arriving at Paris Gare de Lyon - the station for high speed trains to France‘s second and third cities Marseille and Lyon… and there are 4 trains in the next hour.

FOUR

That’s it.

The chronically under utilised capacity on French rail, off peak, makes me annoyed.

And 2 of the 4 trains this hour at Paris Gare de Lyon are regional ones

So just 2 high speed departures

Compare that to Milano Centrale with 8 departures, or Frankfurt (Main) Hbf with a dozen

(Oh and DB doesn’t show Italo. So the Milano total will be higher still)

And when SNCF goes whining to the Italian competition authority it can’t get the paths it wants in Italy, pause a moment: Italian high speed lines and stations are quite full, all day

By contrast SNCF Réseau can‘t refuse Trenitalia an off peak path in France when nothing else is going

Trenitalia meanwhile needs 8 staff to board one 8 carriage Frecciarossa 🤷‍♂️
So you can board a full Frecciarossa in 11 minutes, from a terminus gate at Gare de Lyon, with staff checking tickets instead of using ticket barriers
However Frecciarossa seats are designed for short people. I’m 1m 83 tall, and the seat comes only to the base of my skull. Seat is comfortable until there though! 🙂
It’s smooth at 300km/h, not quite as good as a TGV though

There are some design choices made by Trenitalia for the interior that make little sense

Worst: luggage space. Most carriages have no rack for large bags at all! What were they thinking?

They don’t sell 2 seats per carriage as a temporary solution for this

Thankfully the overhead racks are generous. Not quite as good as Talgo, but still very good.

The noise level on board is fine. The air quality good. Toilets and vestibules well designed. Gangways between carriages wide.

Put some luggage racks in, and replace linoleum floors with carpet and you’d have an excellent train.

France tangent: Bourgogne Franche Comté reduction cards have not been working on SNCF for a week or so, despite SNCF issuing them AFAIK

Now all holders have received an email telling them to… 🥁… use another SNCF website to book instead

Well done everyone!

Now on the final train home, Dijon to Nuits-sous-Ravières

It’s packed

But there *are seats* - but passengers put bags on them

I don’t know what’s more stupid: doing that to deny passengers a seat, or passengers refusing to ask passengers move bags?

I asked, got a grumpy 🤷‍♂️ but the passenger complied and I have a seat

Spent the past couple of hours working on the data, as so many of my #CrossBorderRail plans changed in the past couple of days

The map I travelled is now more or less right: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#6/48.973/2.845

But all the train assessments will follow sometime, tomorrow if I have the energy!

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap

And just one more station of #CrossBorderRail to go... Montbard now, 10 mins to Nuits-sous-Ravières and then 2km bike home

And then this monster will no doubt be sat on my knee within 2 minutes of my arrival!

Thanks for following all of this crazy project this past three weeks. I need a bit of a rest, but there will be a lot more soon!

SNCF: bags without a label are a big danger! Announce! Fine! Act!

Also SNCF: passenger blocking doors (an escape route) with 4 bags. 🤷‍♂️

@jon if a german zugchef saw that the train would be required to be cancelled….