Mastodawn

Ken M Sweeney Dec 26, 2024

@clive Just for safety reference, that powder extinguisher in the image would be absolutely useless in the event of lithium battery fire.

@TheComfortableSpotPodcast

True

Professor_Stevens Dec 26, 2024

@TheComfortableSpotPodcast @clive

What would work?

CohenTheBlue Dec 26, 2024

@Professor_Stevens @TheComfortableSpotPodcast @clive drown it in sand

Professor_Stevens Dec 26, 2024

@cohentheblue @TheComfortableSpotPodcast @clive

Thanks. I'll keep a bucket on my bench.

CohenTheBlue Dec 26, 2024

@Professor_Stevens @TheComfortableSpotPodcast @clive I hope I was clear enough, never try to move 'em, by drowning I meant pour the sand on the cells, fast as possible. For less of a mess I would probably use some sort of box shaped area as the work / storage surface to contain the sand. It's coarse and gets everywhere.

Professor_Stevens Dec 26, 2024

@cohentheblue @TheComfortableSpotPodcast @clive

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant, but thanks for making that certain.

I wonder if vape cells meet the same UL certifications now typical for bike batteries. My university won't let you bring an electric micromobility vehicle on campus if its batteries aren't certified (and they never let you bring them indoors, regardless).

Ken M Sweeney Dec 26, 2024

@Professor_Stevens @cohentheblue @clive
Here are a couple of articles I've written on the issue:

https://firefight.ie/2024/05/30/the-safety-of-electric-vehicles-a-comprehensive-overview/

https://firefight.ie/2024/05/28/understanding-thermal-runaway-description-and-dangers/

https://firefight.ie/2024/03/09/electric-scooter-and-bike-batteries24/

https://firefight.ie/2024/03/04/the-hidden-risks-of-lithium-batteries-unveiling-the-potential-dangers24/

The Safety of Electric Vehicles: A Comprehensive Overview

Electric vehicles have gained significant traction in recent years, not only as an environmentally friendly alternative to traditional powered cars but also showcasing innovation. We explore both t…

FireFight

Ken M Sweeney Dec 26, 2024

@Professor_Stevens @cohentheblue @clive

Currently, the industry is tackling the problem with a new type of fire extinguisher. This unit also covers class A and electrical fires which makes it quite versatile. The downside is that they are quite expensive (400€ for 6lt) and are suitable for small fires battery fires only.

https://firechiefglobal.com/firechief-lith-ex-fire-extinguisher-range-perfect-commercial-premises/

🔚

The Firechief Lith-Ex Fire Extinguisher Range is Perfect for Commercial Premises!

The Firechief Lith-Ex extinguisher range is ideal for tackling Lithium-Ion battery fires in commercial premises. The high performance Lith-Ex extinguishers contain AVD (Aqueous Vermiculite Dispersion) compound - a revolutionary fire […]

Firechief Global

@TheComfortableSpotPodcast @Professor_Stevens @cohentheblue

aha, cool to know, thank you!

@TheComfortableSpotPodcast @Professor_Stevens @cohentheblue @clive

Justthinkin Dec 27, 2024

Good to know !!! This shit is scarry !
I'm lucky to have a home left. I was in bed and heard this going off in my front room, it sounded like a fireworks going off and smoked like a smoke bomb. Almost setting a house fire and would have if I hadn't intervened. When I found it sparks were flying everywhere. Thankfully, I was able to get it moved outside before my house burned..

@Justthinkin @TheComfortableSpotPodcast @Professor_Stevens @cohentheblue

holy crap! glad nobody was hurt

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱Dec 26, 2024

@TheComfortableSpotPodcast

Metal-fires are not good. Water? Nah. Powder? Nah. Foam? Nah. Maybe lots of sand might help? Not really.

Don't set light to metals!

@mastodon.social @clive

@TheComfortableSpotPodcast @clive

Justthinkin Dec 27, 2024

Lauren Weinstein Dec 26, 2024

@clive It's mostly safety concerns. It's complicated.

𝓐𝓷𝓭𝔂𝓣𝓲𝓮𝓭𝔂𝓮 𓀤 Dec 26, 2024

Some "disposable" vapes are actually refillable.

MW1CFN Dec 26, 2024

@clive The underlying answer is: because the environmental and social costs of lithium extraction, and the cost of disposing of used units, has no economic cost attached to it.

This is also the problem with carbon emissions (despite carbon trading, which doesn't work), plastic production, etc.

If the true cost of consumerism was costed in, we would change our views and behaviour overnight.

Bonkers Dec 26, 2024

@MW1CFN @clive also, users would buy rechargeable vapes less frequently, so the profits would drop.

@bonkers @MW1CFN

true true

yaygya Dec 26, 2024

@MW1CFN @clive if the true cost of consumerism was costed in, conservatives would lead a wildly successful “axe the tax” campaign and repeal those changes the first chance they get.

MW1CFN Dec 27, 2024

@yaygya @clive You're right! But the response would be...all wrong!

Sadly, most of the population are as thick as mince and opt for easy answers to their plight.

Look no further than this latest image of 'Forriner Farridge' to understand who's interests are behind all the lies. Hint: they're not the average Joe's interests.

As for his aspirations to take over Wales in 2025, we don't like incomers and those who refuse to speak our language. As in, him, not asylum seekers.

Jeff Craig Dec 26, 2024

@clive In 100 years or so there is going to be a healthy trade in "mining" our waste disposal facilities for precious metals.

Cognitive Dissidence Dec 26, 2024

@foxxtrot @clive
Let's hope it's healthy for the people doing it.

@Jonstewartmill @foxxtrot

indeed

Dźwiedziu Dec 26, 2024

@clive Is the answer “capitalism”?⸮

River J. Hopkins Dec 26, 2024

@clive One of the dispensaries near me has a place for people to bring their used vapes/batteries to recycle! It's pretty great.

@cyborg_writer

that's right on!

Clockwork ☃️✒️Dec 26, 2024

#Solarpunk af!

@clockwooork

🤘 🤖

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱Dec 26, 2024

@clive This is Important. There are sooo many kids on YT doing vids about recycling these things.

@bytebro

it's really cool to see

Andres Dec 26, 2024

@clive I love this kind of stuff, but also some back-of-the-envelope math: he used 130 vape batteries to create a 715 Wh ebike battery (more powerful than mine, which is 672 Wh); 5.5 Wh per vape battery. Tesla Model 3 has a 60,000 Wh battery, and a Model X has roughly 100,000 Wh battery. So that's 11,000 vape batteries for the Model 3, and 18,000 vape batteries for the Model X.

Keeping 661 Model Xs (or 1,081 Model 3s) from ever being made would be roughly equivalent to recycling 11.9mil vapes

Andres Dec 26, 2024

@clive Of course by "preventing those cars from being made", I mean through building infill urban housing, switching people from cars to more efficient modes of transportation like bikes/ebikes/transit, etc.

@Andres4NY

yeah, these calculations show the enormous ecological and environmental value of shifting over to vehicles that have much smaller material footprints

e-kick-scooters have just about the lowest vehicle:passenger material-parts ratio you can find, and consequently use a super small number of batteries

Gemma ⭐️🔰🇺🇸 🇵🇭 🎐Dec 26, 2024

@clive Typical cutting edge 18650 and 21700 li-ion cells are currently running about 5000 mAh max x 3.7 V (nominal), for a total of about 18.5 Wh per cell.

My ebike has a 504 Wh, 48 V battery.

Andres Dec 26, 2024

@clive Makes sense, as they're also designed to be carried (and pair nicely with other modes). Just randomly picked the first two from search results and they've got only 280Wh and 367Wh batteries. Impressive!

@Andres4NY

yeah, excellent point -- foldable/portable e-kick scooters pair *really* well with mass transit!

okanogen VerminEnemyFromWithin Dec 26, 2024

@clive
Also, these are reused extensively by the Ukrainian army to power drones.
#VapeForVictory
Check this:
https://youtube.com/shorts/xLwL8zxoOiA?si=_pYUi9yCXiLfSKX0

Before you continue to YouTube

@Okanogen

oh, fascinating!

okanogen VerminEnemyFromWithin Dec 26, 2024

@clive
Used for drones, controllers, triggers, etc..

@Okanogen

yep yep

inpc Dec 26, 2024

@clive how many discarded vapes would I need to heat my house for the winter?

@inpc

good question!

inpc Dec 26, 2024

@clive I suspect I could collect enough just walking round my town centre for a day. Then I just need to work out how to put them together without electrocuting myself!

@inpc

yeah it requires a steady hand and good knowledge of electronics

Dragon Dec 26, 2024

@clive most people shouldn’t try this however,

It can be done reasonably safely but you have to know what you are doing, which means an appropriately configured bms and packaging the cells sensibly so they won’t get damaged

@Dragon

yep absolutely

🌸 Bisexual Flower 🐀Dec 26, 2024

the forbidden sushi

@Alex

😂

RejZoR Dec 26, 2024

@clive We put USB ports on everything to charge, but somehow, not on vapes. Isn't that stupid?

@rejzor

truly

Coho Dec 26, 2024

@clive
And all the aquifers being drained, and landscape turned into deserts, and poor communities in poor countries, destroyed by toxic dust and runoff from lithium mining.
I'm glad at least one person is recycling

Nicro Dec 26, 2024

@clive if I remember right, he got all of them from a large, popular festival ground in a single day. The numbers are astonishing.

@Nicro

truly

aburka 🫣Dec 26, 2024

@clive should be illegal to sell disposable devices with rechargeable batteries

@aburka

agreed

In Search of a Better World Dec 26, 2024

Please don't do this if you live in a block of flats, a terrace or semidetached house, or anything with other properties nearby. If you live in a detached in sizable grounds with room for fire brigade parking then go nuts, but cheap ebike and vape batteries fires are killing innocent people and burning down homes.

@CrypticMirror

correct

Though to be fair to this guy, he builds a battery management system (BMS )into his DIY battery -- its job is to pay attention to the state of each cell and shut 'em all down if any start to behave even slightly in a wobbly fashion, to avoid fires

as he notes, all these fires we're seeing (and here in NYC where I live, we've seen a lot of them) involve cheap low-rent batteries made without a BMS, to save money

Kevin Russell Dec 26, 2024

Boost Clive's post on stupid. Stupid stands in our way.