There's a disgusting inversion going on right now where people try to justify incel behavior by saying men are lonely. This makes people feel bad about pushing back on this, because it sounds like you're a callous person that doesn't care about the very real pain of loneliness?
No. This is a nonsense trap.
Women get lonely. Black people get lonely. Loneliness is a real problem.
But loneliness is not justification for *checks notes* becoming a literal nazi and electing a racist dictator.
1/N
Loneliness, combined with an extreme sense of entitlement, leads people to believe that they should be able to be terrible people, and yet somehow not lonely. It doesn't work that way.
And a lot of that loneliness is self-imposed!
White US toxic masculinity is a prison where you are your own warden. There are all these silly rules that keep white men in the US lonely and unhappy. Like seriously, we have news anchors telling men not to enjoy ice cream because that's not "manly?" Really?
2/N
Show me a happy white man in the US, and I'll show you a man that rejects most of these rules. "🧔🏻♂️Who made that a rule? Who says I have to follow it? LOL! No. 😋🍦"
But then we've got other men:
🧔🏻♂️Men suffer so much! The loneliness is real! No one cares about our mental health!
👩🏼That sounds hard! Therapy helped me --
🧔🏻♂️No!
👩🏼OK... well talking to friends also --
🧔🏻♂️No!
👩🏼OK... wow. Well, helping others can build a sense of community --
🧔🏻♂️No!
👩🏼What do you think will help you?
🧔🏻♂️ Trump!
3/N
And yes, there are Black incels and manosphere podcast bros, as well.
White US men do not have a monopoly on using "loneliness plus entitlement" to justify mistreating women.
The twisted thinking is the same.
A better way to deal with loneliness, is to understand why you are lonely, and then to address that. Maybe it's depression or another very real mental health issue. Maybe it's your living situation. But I promise you, the cause is never "Not enough fascism in the world!"
4/4
I wear Crocs, because they're the only shoes that fit my giant feet. I pick fun ones, because they amuse me.
At least once a month, some dude says something about them and my masculinity.
I look them in the eye and say quietly, "I have no doubt I'm a real man."
They wither and flee. Every time.
I go back to enjoying my ice cream.
@mwl I never really thought about Crocs and masculinity.
I despise Crocs, because they were the assigned footwear when I was incarcerated. I don't like being reminded of the prison industrial complex.
Admittedly, Crocs aren't unique in this regard. There were other "upgraded" footwear individuals who had copious amounts of commissary funds could purchase. I also despise seeing those footwear.
But, an attack on masculinity? At least any time I was locked up, gender segregation was still a thing, they seem very, perhaps excessively, masculine given that I was incarcerated with other men.
Anyway, if they fit your feet, more power to you!
The real solution to being triggered from PTSD from the prison industrial complex isn't about changing footwear anyway, it's about abolishing prisons.
@mekkaokereke
@teajaygrey @mwl @mekkaokereke
Crocs are also straight-up plastic pollution landfill, if you need more reasons to hate them.
They're also a terrible employer. & suppliers to the prison industrial comples.
I would love to see them yeeted into the sun.
@teajaygrey @mwl @mekkaokereke
But also: abolish prisons 👍
my daughter wanted to upgrade her phone
i told her her phone was fine
she kept pestering me
then i noticed her current phone was better than mine
so we swapped: i got her phone, she got the one she wanted
and...
i kept her pink sparkly super girly phone case
i did it because it's funny. but also, i'm lazy
so here i am, an old hetero guy, with a sparkly pink phone case
a secure man doesn't care
but a lot of men out there are insecure. and then they get manipulated
but you can use that phone case to embarrass your daughter!
Any REAL man understands that takes precedence over any variety of performative masculinity. 
exactly
you're not a real father if you aren't making your daughter "die of cringe"
so you lean into it
it is the solemn duty of all fathers to embarrass their daughters
unfortunately, she's onto me, and now she just rolls her eyes
@mwl @mekkaokereke this is my stupid masculinity story
I was at the gym with my friend, me, early 40s, him late 40s. Out of nowhere he made a dick size joke.
I started coming up with a retort about how no, actually I had the larger penis (as one does) but then I had a sudden moment of clarity at the absurdity of the situation.
“Excuse me but I already have six children. Like, what else do you want from me?”
I realized I never have to worry about that shit ever again (and in fact, never did)
@sidereal @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke The only way they know how to interact with women is the Neg them, including the childless cat lady thing.
I remember when I found out the "Spinster" was a term of respect for a woman who had employment and was self sufficient until men got sad and made it an insult.
@sidereal @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke
Why a "loneliness epidemic" only for men?
Anecdotally, though, it seems true. I see a lot of women walking alone these days (even without dogs!) and they seem pretty happy about it
It could be historical discrimination leveling out
Men seem lonely because they used to be able to force women to marry them
Women seem happy because they’re finally allowed to be alone
The answer (as noted) is for men to get over themselves
@sidereal @peterbutler @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke It surprises me to see someone praising dating apps in this context; I find them horribly alienating. I'm also reflecting today on how different people's feelings about sexuality and relationships can be, and it does seem like some people thrive on them.
By and large, I do think there's been a methodical elimination of public social life. Part of it is the deliberate elimination or privatization of any public spaces, including virtual spaces.
@foolishowl @sidereal @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke
I think the internet/smartphones is part of it
I don’t know if that's true, but it *feels* like there are far less people out and about because they’re inside on their phones or computers
The loss of non-commercial public spaces has been happening for decades, but this “loneliness epidemic" definitely feels like a Web3.0 era thing
I also find Internet relationships to have an "uncanny valley” effect — not quite the same as IRL friendships
@peterbutler @sidereal @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke I feel like what I sometimes have heard called "nerd culture" used to thrive on the Internet. It had problematic aspects -- a lot of misogyny in particular -- but I felt that we could communicate in text in a way we couldn't so easily in person. For me at least, autism likely had a lot to do with it.
Early MMOs, for instance, had a significant social aspect to them, that I feel was rationalized away in favor of efficient gameplay.
@sidereal @peterbutler @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke I had a lot of trouble dating in my youth, back in the 80s and early 90s, and think a lot of my problem was that I got loneliness all mixed up with a ridiculous type of status anxiety. Yes, I got lonely, but I was also deeply afraid that I was a loser for not having a girlfriend, and the quest for a relationship was really partly a quest to level up in guy culture.
The resulting desperation can be really unattractive. Also, if your real audience is not the women themselves but other men, you create obstacles for yourself: that girlfriend had better be really impressive! You get picky in ways that are being externally imposed, nothing to do with who might be a good fit for you.
I didn't have any success until I learned to relax and stop worrying that somebody might be keeping score.
I suspect this is the fundamental problem a lot of these dudes are having.
@sidereal @peterbutler @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke You'll notice that a lot of "manosphere"/"PUA"/"MRA" stuff is about these weird grading and scoring systems: they're obsessed with things like facial symmetry and waist-to-hip ratios, all these "objective" measurements of women but also of themselves.
And that stuff is also a classic element of racist/fascist eugenic thinking. So the latter comes naturally once you're deep in the pit.
@jayalane @sidereal @peterbutler @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke I think pop culture of 40 years ago was actually MORE toxic than today's when it came to this stuff; you had comedies aimed at teenagers going on about the age after which boys were basically ruined if they hadn't gotten laid, that kind of thing.
But what there wasn't was the online culture devoted to telling guys who were anxious about this stuff that it was women's fault for rejecting them. They were more on their own, which might have felt worse but didn't actively lead them to these very dark places.
@mattmcirvin @jayalane @sidereal @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke
That sounds right to me. Rape culture and misogyny were far more prevalent in popular movies, etc, but there wasn’t the same online echo chamber reflecting and reinforcing it 24/7/365
@peterbutler @jayalane @sidereal @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke Because it was a pop-culture fad the movies and TV shows spent a lot of time playing up the importance of the jock/nerd distinction, and the older I get the more meaningless I think that is.
It led to the infamous "I'm a nice guy" phenomenon, where straight guys who still had a lot of terrible ideas about women thought of themselves as virtuous because they theoretically valued intelligence and weren't quarterback date-rapists. But that's a hell of a low bar.
@fifilamoura @peterbutler @sidereal @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke
I gotta ask: why is “treat people like people” so hard for “boys” to understand? Is this a cis binary thing I’m not getting?
(Or am I missing something: Do cis girls *want* special gendered treatment?)
@MxVerda @fifilamoura @sidereal @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke
I was a reactionary conservative when I was 13 or 14. It’s a dumb age
Not racially — I wasn’t raised with (explicit) White supremacy — but I did grow up with ingrained sexism
For me it was pure chauvinism/male supremacy. Men are tougher, stronger, and smarter, and women are supporters
I eventually grew up
>> Do cis girls *want* special gendered treatment?
Many do, i.e women should be put on pedestals,, e.g. beauty pageants
@peterbutler @sidereal @Ashedryden @mekkaokereke I haven't dug into it *too* deeply but the Surgeon General's "loneliness epidemic" reports suggest that women are better at being single than men are. A "lonely" woman develops friendships and community, whereas lonely men do not. What men do instead is what makes the phenomenon alarming.
It's a description of the symptoms of a social epidemic with dire consequences. I haven't seen an official policy solution suggested.
NullRegister
mekka okereke 
FeralRobots
Insecurity Princess 🌈💖🔥
jack
Brian Webster
Log 🪵
Katerina Marchán
Enema Cowboy
Michael W Lucas 
Scruffy looking packet herder
ティージェーグレェ
Cavyherd
mike805
Gabriel Adrian Samfira
ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES
Charo del Genio
ChefRaven
Fluffy Kitty Cat
John Wilson
Ben Ramsey
Max
Brother Soul
Ashe Dryden 🙆🏼♀️🐈🐈⬛
sidereal
MrC
Peter Butler
FoolishOwl
Remco van Bree
Chris L
Matt McIrvin
Fifi Lamoura
Mx Verda
Shar(yna)Tran/Shark(aeopteryx)
Bynkii
OpenDNA⚙️