John GruberElectron.
I have been using the Mac for a long time and I can't recall ever seeing a prompt like this when I ⌘Q an app:
Putting aside the thirstiness of asking for an app to remain running in the background, despite it consuming 1.8 GB of RAM in idle state, "Close" does not mean “Quit" in Mac parlance, and the Cancel button should be on the left.
Jeffrey Forner@gruber You're really selling me on this thing.
Tyler K. Nothing@gruber Well, doesn't look like I'll be diving into that anytime soon. Is Adium still a thing?
@tylerknowsnothing Adium has been dead a long long time. Was only for "instant messaging” platforms, all of which themselves are dead.
@gruber That's a bummer. I'll stick to Mastodon, Matrix, and Telegram.
Collin Donnell@gruber That's the kind of craft and attention to detail I want from the people who have all my chat service credentials.
Matt Birchler@gruber Not sure if you used Texts, but it asks for accessibility features to control your screen and then uses that to automatically click a system pop up asking for elevated permissions to see your messages data. I get why they thought that would be more seamless for the user, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.
Really wish these apps didn’t feel so awkward.
Don Osborne
aardvark
teachpaperless
donkey
Kishan Bagaria@matt this was my idea. we ask for accessibility first and automate certain permission prompts, all to reduce the number of clicks in the onboarding experience and make it as low friction as possible. i now realize this can feel jarring. with a future update, the auth screen will tell you this is going to happen before it does.
also, accessibility is primarily needed to make imessage work on macOS, since that's the only kosher way of making it work without asking for your apple ID/password.
Rick@gruber Electron app?
Robert Currie
Greg Pierce@gruber Chrome does it’s “really quit” BS, but that’s next-level nonsense.
Evan B🥥ehs@agiletortoise @gruber I kinda like that because Cmd+Q really do be next to Cmd+W
Elliot Shank@agiletortoise @gruber Yeah… but Command-Q is right next to Command-W and browsers have long restart times, so I have found the similar thing in Firefox to be useful.
Joel Housman@agiletortoise @gruber and under the File menu in Chrome you can toggle off the “really quit” question from popping up again.
Mike Nichols@agiletortoise @gruber lol yes I only use chrome on occasion when I’m having an issue that seems potentially browser related. Every time chrome tells me to “hold to quit” I always feel like I’m going to close chrome and then the next app in the queue accidentally.
ellzumem@mikenichols @agiletortoise @gruber You can just cmd Q twice instead, which I found to be more reliable or at least seemingly safer than holding it (Chromium has the same behavior)
@lm1 @agiletortoise @gruber that’s actually what I do, and even that worries me I’m going to accidentally kill the next app in the queue. My muscle memory _really_ doesn’t like that move.
@gruber @lm1 @agiletortoise I use Chrome so infrequently I didn't look for the setting. Just found it and disabled it.
Jeff Tyrrill@mikenichols @lm1 @agiletortoise @gruber I'm so anxious about this kind of mistake that I always use the mouse, like a caveman, to select Quit from the menu bar for all apps.
Son of a Sailor@gruber Insta-delete.
Doug Burns@gruber you wouldn't close me, would you? 🥺
Gik 
| 💙➡️🇺🇦@gruber 1Password did for the mini app. Made shutdowns frustrating.
Kim Slawson
Eshu Marneedi@gruber I don't even understand why they ask you to first install the desktop client when you try to set up the iOS one. What are they doing in the background?
Elliott@gruber Thank you for killing even the faint interest i had in trying it.
Kevin Patrick Doyle 🍅🥫@gruber very windows
gabert@gruber
Not even Adium?
Not even Adium?
Casey Liss@gruber chrome, IIRC
Christopher@caseyliss @gruber Chrome does warn about quitting but doesn’t ask to continue running in the background which I think is want he meant.
@christopherbowers @gruber oh oh upon a re-read I think you’re right. Carry on 😶🌫️
Mieszko Ślusarczyk@caseyliss Chrome’s “hold ⌘Q to Quit” thing is weird, but I’m talking about begging to remain open in the background.
Ian Murren@gruber @caseyliss the adobe creative cloud app does that, offers to hide instead
Adam Demasi@gruber @caseyliss Not weird, it’s handy and often a life saver to have it catch you press the wrong key. Firefox also makes you confirm you’re really sure. I’d consider it weird that Safari hasn’t matched its competition here.
Rob@kirb @gruber @caseyliss Just happened to me where I closed Safari accidentally. Luckily restoring a session is easy, but yah kind of a pain.
Scott Willsey@kirb it defeats the whole point of keyboard shortcuts. I don't use them to get asked 20 questions, i use them exactly NOT to get asked 20 questions. 😄 @gruber @caseyliss
@scottwillsey @gruber @caseyliss I press ⌘W in my browser constantly, I very rarely want ⌘Q, but Q is right next to W where I can accidentally press it and ruin my day. When I really do want it, I can hold it or hit return to confirm. Really not a big deal.
Eric Vitiello@gruber Javascript was a mistake.
KraigWhy doesn’t Apple ban electron apps?!
Or at least provide users a way to systemically disable it?!
Jesus, what a dumpster fire.
@kraigschmidt You might be jesting, but the truth is Apple *has* banned Electron apps -- on iOS. And that's exactly the sort of protection the DOJ's antitrust complaint argues is abuse of their supposed monopoly.
[ Jer moved instances ]@gruber @kraigschmidt do you mean Apple has banned apps built using concepts that Electron uses? Because electron is a desktop technology and doesn't target iOS or Android at all...
@nyquildotorg @kraigschmidt Correct. I'm not talking about Electron specifically but Electron-like runtimes. Just not allowed on iOS.
@gruber @kraigschmidt I think you need further clarification. The only part of Electron-like that Apple doesn't allow is the chromium engine baked into Electron. I've shipped apps on iOS with multiple javascript-in-webkit frameworks...
@gruber @kraigschmidt isn't Capacitor just packaging a webview for iOS and Android? I'm not convinced on this claim.
@eb @gruber @kraigschmidt I think maybe what he's insinuating is that Electron specifically uses Chromium rather than "a webview," and non-webkit engines aren't allowed. I've definitely shipped Cordova apps on iOS, which work the same way but using the WebKit that's already on iOS 🤷
@nyquildotorg @gruber @kraigschmidt ah, that makes sense, it was just confusing to see that statement on Electron iOS in the context of 'webapps pretending to be real apps use a lot of resources'
Edit: And I should add that, again, the android ecosystem of repackaged webapps looks just like the iOS one, despite not having the browser engine restrictions
@eb @gruber @kraigschmidt yeah. I had the same reaction. Electron doesn't have any mobile OSes as targets 🤷
I wasn’t jesting at all. Don’t get me started on the DoJ and DMA. I’m brutally angry.
I want Apple to be *more* restrictive, not less.
I want the wall of the garden to be higher and stronger.
Apples not perfect, but they care more (which is to say, at all) about the user experience than anyone else, because that’s the business model they’ve chosen.
There are examples everywhere even with their success Apple *still* can’t persuade companies to do the right things for UX…
@gruber And to think, just the other day I thought idle Drafts having 12 threads seemed a little high and spent an hour looking into reducing that.