Mastodawn

If you have a website hosted on Hetzner, take it off from their servers immediately. This morning I woke up with my instance down and this message in my mailbox:

"Dear Ms...

We have noticed irregularities on your account, so we unfortunately cannot have a contract with you at the present time. We have therefore had to close your account.

In general, if customers give us incomplete or incorrect information, we have to close their accounts.

We cannot provide any information on individual cases. Thank you for your understanding.

Kind regards"

Without giving any warning or reason, they deleted my account with everything inside (Thankfully we have back ups every 12 hours). I couldn't even log into their site to open a ticket. They deleted my entire instance.

I replied the email asking about what information was incomplete or incorrect. Their answer was "we can't provide you this information due to security reasons"

It was a Kafkanian situation. They didn't ask me for more information or indicate what was wrong. They didn't even warn me that something was wrong. They didn't give me at least 10 minutes to look for a new server. They deleted my account and any possibility of having access to their website in an unilateral decision. And I learned that, interestingly, this has already happened to another progressive instance. Another curiosity is that they host the website of AfD, the far-right-almost-nazi German party.

In other words: a progressive and feminist instance is overthrown without explanation. An LGBTIQA+ instance is also taken down with no justification. But a far-right website is comfortably hosted in there, for years now, because they are the good guys according to Hetzner.

Never, ever use their services.

Update here: https://ursal.zone/deck/@Ursalzona/112371458109649626

Colin McMillen Apr 12, 2024

@Ursalzona fuck, I use their backup service. Will have to move.
Thanks for the heads-up

@Ursalzona +9001%

GandhiTheDerg Apr 13, 2024

@Ursalzona Don't think they think, they're the good guys, they just have the Legal team and money to fight it out i assume.
I doubt they like messing with Political Parties, from a country where suing someone is the Go-To way of getting what you want

jorger Apr 13, 2024

@Ursalzona @walsonde

Thanks for sharing.

Nomen est Omen...
German "Hetzer" means "agitator", "hetzen" is "agitating".

netop://ウィビ Apr 14, 2024

@Ursalzona They're anti-blockchain too so I never wanted to use them.

enachtpfoetchen6s0 Apr 14, 2024

@Ursalzona Welcome to the corporate world, where every private company can terminate service to you.
like this can happen with basically every hoster.
🤷‍♀️
Also don't expect hetzner support to go lengths for smol clients, that are like <10€ / month.
i mean what can be learned from that is, don't put all your eggs in one nest.
Also they gave an explaination: "In general, if customers give us incomplete or incorrect information, we have to close their accounts." they believe that information was incorrect or incomplete. They just didn't specify on what information that was.
as said don't expect there support to go lengths for small clients.

Hugh Ferguson Apr 15, 2024

@nachtpfoetchen @Ursalzona all of this an argument for a multi-cloud solution, but keep a local backup of everything....just in case your content really pisses off the "owners" of your country

@nachtpfoetchen @Ursalzona I can tell from experience that they are shit even for big clients that pay them 5-6 digit each month...

Ask me how I know...

MagicLike 🏳️‍🌈Apr 12, 2024

@Ursalzona TF THEY ARE HOSTING THE NAZI SITE - ok so I need to find a new hoster what the fuck

@MagicLike @Ursalzona I mean they are hosting half the internet at this point ... but yeah that's all pretty fucking bad.

Not sure where to move though.

☭🇧🇷🇺🇳🇵🇸Apr 13, 2024

@catraxx @MagicLike

you could try contabo.com. I use as VPS host. It's great. Cheap, fast, nice storage and good service. Never tried as mastodon host.

Z̈oé Apr 12, 2024

@Ursalzona there’s nothing “almost” about it

@uint8_t I'm being polite. And advised by a legal team

But I know who they are

Davy Apr 13, 2024

@Ursalzona Wow... Thanks a ton for spreading that piece of information!

I'm curious about the position of @hachyderm regarding this matter given that - if I recall correctly - we are hosted there, isn't it?

Bruno Rocha Apr 13, 2024

@davy @Ursalzona @hachyderm
AFAIK hachyderm is hosted at DO
https://www.digitalocean.com/blog/digitalocean-spaces-mastodon-hachyderm

How Hachyderm leveraged DigitalOcean Spaces to scale their Mastodon community

As the Hachyderm Mastodon server grew rapidly, they leveraged DigitalOcean Spaces for their storage needs.

Davy Apr 13, 2024

@rochacbruno @Ursalzona @hachyderm I remember watching live sessions at early stages and they were using it for the infrastructure.

Davy Apr 13, 2024

@rochacbruno @Ursalzona @hachyderm https://community.hachyderm.io/docs/infrastructure/

Open Source Infrastructure

Description of our public infrastructure that keeps Hachyderm online.

Hachyderm Community

Esk 🐌⚡💜Apr 19, 2024

@davy @rochacbruno @Ursalzona @hachyderm Howdy, y'all - hachyderm infra person here. Thanks for tagging us. We've been watching the situation and are in contact with Hetzner.

At current, we're hosted across several providers: Linode (CDN/edge), DO (media & backup storage), AWS (global DNS), and Hetzner (masto core & DB).

We don't have an RTO (specific recovery time target), but absolute worst case, maybe a week? Obvi, we'd want to avoid that.

Davy Apr 19, 2024

@esk @rochacbruno @Ursalzona @hachyderm Thanks for the swift feedback and for taking action ❤️ !

@Ursalzona #AfD is not almost, but a proven #Neonazi party, which is why I'll call them #NSAfD, because they are in fact #Neonazis!

But yeah, #Hetzner is garbage and I should add their entire ASN onto my #DROP blocklist...

scrappedbadnik Apr 12, 2024

@Ursalzona Teve uma instancia aqui que teve mesmo acontecimento, e aparentemente o que aconteceu foi que uma usuaria postou desenho de lesbicas fofas se beijando só???? não sei se foi transfem.social ou woem.men

TransFem Space

TransFem Space: A safe space for TransFem individuals and allies. Together, we build a stronger community! <br> <br> Everyone is welcome as long as a signup reason is given. It should be a minimum of 1-2 sentences about you and why you're interested in our instance. An example: "I'm queer and I'd like to try out sharkey". <br> <br> Banner Image made by @[email protected]

TransFem Space

Moved accounts!Apr 12, 2024

@Ursalzona cc @jo erm… this Does Not Look Good

small, primitive, wingless Apr 12, 2024

@onemuri @jo @Ursalzona an account dedicated to news about the Ukraine war recently posted about some progress in getting a bit more international support while the US continues to drag its feet uselessly in circles

given hetzner's previous pro-putin censorship action i can't help but wonder if this latest crackdown is related

Moved accounts!Apr 12, 2024

@silverfish @jo @Ursalzona honestly my main worry is that CTM is like… literally explicitly queer, it’s a place dedicated for transmasc people and the last thing we wanna deal with is getting yoinked by a bunch of braindead krauts who are scared of gay people

Nahga Apr 12, 2024

@Ursalzona
Holy shit that is absurd. How can they completely delete all your data without an explanation? I, just a few days ago, moved my instance off of Hetzner's VPS, for completely unrelated reasons. I'm really glad I did now.

Arctic Apr 12, 2024

@Ursalzona this is an absolutely insane way to treat paying customers, like holy shit. I haven't even heard of stuff like this on Oracle Cloud free tier, even they give guidelines on how things work.

spinnycat_demigirl

@Ursalzona this is on top of the woem.men situation a few weeks ago: https://woem.men/notes/9ragjwecxwul3nis

so either people who have a grudge against you will shut you down with the weakest possible evidence or hetzner will do it themselves because of "incomplete or incorrect information" without warning and without description of the "irregularities"
also "incorrect information" could be used against trans people who haven't changed their legal name

mistress ashten (@ashten)

CW: accurate summary of cf/hetzner to reshare

what is a woɘmₘₑₙ?

Ben Zucker 🍰Apr 14, 2024

@eyrie
Maybe all existing customers should ask #hetzner preventative if there is evidence for so called "incomplete or incorrect information" at their account so this can be fixed...last but not least to hold them accountable for lying in case they ban afterwards for the very same reason.
@Ursalzona

StrawberryPuding Apr 12, 2024

@Ursalzona HANS, GET ZE FLAMENWEHR

StrawberryPuding Apr 12, 2024

@Ursalzona i wonder how will they deal with their servers´ GPU temp suddenly reading 400°C...

@Ursalzona holy shit I'm glad that the worst that the Polish-French operation I've entrusted my data to did is blowing up my data due to a technician's incompetence (they've taught me how to do backups properly and to test them)

zayd Apr 12, 2024

@Ursalzona i'd also like to note that they supposedly host mapsupport (dot) de, an instance that proudly hosts people in support of child sexual abuse and probably people who are actual child abusers

zayd Apr 12, 2024

@Ursalzona but yeah, fuck hetzner, i've hated them since i knew they required a full id to get a vps

LautreG Apr 13, 2024

@zayd @Ursalzona
I can't believe they can't give you a reason.
Are you sure about the email? From them?
Do you have the information about the far right content they host?
It's still sound strange that they can't provide direct and individual reason.

What kind of law the content or the activity of your server broke?

You should try the legal way may be.

I don't understand what is progressive content. Is it against law?
Your server was in Europe or other place?

I'm trying to understand.

zayd Apr 13, 2024

@lautre @Ursalzona i think you replied to the wrong post. i've never dealt with hetzner directly, i've always avoided them because of how invasive their kyc is

LautreG Apr 13, 2024

@zayd
Yes, sorry, I should have replyed to the top message.
What is kyc?

I was close to choose them to host my server.

Calisti 🏳️‍🌈🦇 — 🪩✨ 39c3 Apr 13, 2024

@lautre @zayd “Know your customer” - regulations dictating that service providers must record proof of identification of customers.

Draconic NEO Apr 13, 2024

@Ursalzona I wish more people were talking about this, people still push for and recommend Hetzner as a host when they really shouldn't be. I really hope this gets more visible so people stop using that awful hosting service.

txt.file Apr 13, 2024

@Draconic_NEO problem of capitalism. Large companies can provide low prices. Most activists can not afford the high prices of small but much better companies.

Do you have recommendations for a different hosting provider for a similar price?

Mitex Leo Apr 13, 2024

@txt_file @Draconic_NEO Have you tried @privex or 1984 Hosting ?

txt.file Apr 13, 2024

@mitexleo one more requirement: company and data centers in Europe.
I am located in Europe and my users/customers/… are pretty much also located in Europe.

Draconic NEO Apr 14, 2024

@txt_file People aren't going to like this idea very much but honestly in the open spirit of the fediverse I feel like cutting out the middle man and hosting on your own is a very good idea. You could even make setups that are mostly mobile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLRldZjty_s

Obviously it won't work for everyone, but I feel like if the goal is decentralization it's something worth considering, since it avoids situations like this or at least makes them less detrimental (ISP can cut your connection but they can't erase or corrupt your server).

txt.file Apr 14, 2024

@Draconic_NEO I am very much in favour of hosting at home/bureau/office/…

Make the internet decentralised again.

moagee Apr 13, 2024

@Ursalzona wtf, thx for the info. i also host my cloud there. i will send them an email, we all should! https://whois.domaintools.com/afd.de #hetzner

Whois Lookup Captcha

Nico🦆Apr 13, 2024

@Ursalzona if possible, you should involve a lawyer and have a chat with BnetzA about it. Immediately terminating a contract without further information doesn't sound legal.

Goblin Apr 13, 2024

@nicoduck @Ursalzona
I`m not sure if it falls in the jurisdiction of the Bundesnetzagentur (BnetzA), but you can at leat try to open a ticket with them:
https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/_tools/VSTK/Form01Beschwerde/Sonstiges/jsp.html

You can also start a Privacy enquiry with Hetzner, based on Article 15 GDPR by requesting information about the personal data, they store and process about you as a person. That might give you some indication about the case. For that you can send an E-Mail to [email protected]

Bundesnetzagentur - Kontaktformular - Form

Goblin Apr 13, 2024

@nicoduck @Ursalzona
If they do not give you information about your personal data within 30 days, you can escalate the case to the bavarian Privacy (BayLDA), which is the supervisory authority for Hetzner.

If they try to deny your access request, the BayLDA is also the next step of escalation.

In both cases you can start the enquiry at https://www.lda.bayern.de/de/beschwerde.html

Online-Beschwerde einreichen

Das offizielle Informations- und Serviceangebot des Bayerischen Landesamts für Datenschutzaufsicht

Goblin Apr 13, 2024

@nicoduck @Ursalzona
I think both the Bundesnetzagentur and the BayLDA only offer contact forms in german.

In both cases it should be ok to answer the questions in english. To understand the questions, just use some auto translation tool.

rappet 🌴Apr 13, 2024

@Ursalzona just GDPR them

@Ursalzona
👀 @theropologist

Kristof Apr 13, 2024

@Ursalzona Did you sign up through VPN? Are you located in barred country? Did you use different names on your payment accounts? If there are any inconsistencies there, that's a reason for closure. These are the things they are looking for. It's almost never the content of your website / service.

They did ban crypto mining and of course illegal content in Germany/EU.

Sorry to hear it went this way with you - but I've been with them for over 15 years and never had any issues.

mirabilos Apr 13, 2024

@Ursalzona "a website"?

Was that a dedicated server, a VM, just some webspace, or something else entirely?

(Not that I disagree with not using Hetzner, OVH, DO, etc. but curious about details and implications because these things have fundamental differences.)

GandhiTheDerg Apr 13, 2024

@Ursalzona
Ah, Capitalism.
Love it

Dennis Koch Apr 13, 2024

@Ursalzona @Hetzner_Online Hey Hetzner, what's your response to this? As I am hosting business critical apps on your services, this makes me think how safe they are with you. It's not the first time I heard about something like this.

Daniel Gibson Apr 13, 2024

@denniskoch @Ursalzona
Indeed, explain yourself,
@Hetzner_Online
this is completely unacceptable!

Sergio Lima Apr 13, 2024

When I was a child they said: learn English, because it is a necessary tool.
Today I would say: Learn to maintain your own server, because digital self-determination is a skill of the information age!

By the way, I'm sorry for this mess they did with your account

PS: In Germany, Contabo is a great alternative!

@Ursalzona thankfully I can't use Hetzner because 1) my country's bank cards are not accepted anywhere 2) they refuse to service russian customers anyway