Oh noooooo! FB12122106 still exists in macOS 14.0 (23A344)
https://mastodon.social/@siracusa/110117776662224597
I wasn’t able to reproduce it in a clean install of Sonoma, so it's obviously something related to my specific configuration. But damned if I know what it is…
Still trying to track down this bug https://mastodon.social/@siracusa/110255326994000695
To review:
1. It happens only when more than one user is logged in.
2. It does not happen on a clean install of Sonoma—but it does happen on my actual install of Sonoma.
3. It happens even when the only two users logged in are two newly created user accounts.
4. No non-Apple KEXTs are installed.
Given all of this, I've been looking in /Library for culprits. Is there some other place I should be looking?
@siracusa I assume you've already looked at any files in /Library that have changed since your install? (like with “find /Library -newer <watermark-file>”).
Maybe even log everyone out, log one person in, touch some file in /tmp, then log in the second user, verify bug is present, and do the find to see what's been altered by the second login?
Important update to https://mastodon.social/@siracusa/110255326994000695
The bug *is* reproducible on a clean install of macOS 14.0 (23A344).
It was not reproducible in an earlier Sonoma beta, but that changed some time between then and the release version.
At least I can stop tearing third-party software out of my system now…
…but now it’s time to try removing some hardware…
(Reminder for Apple folks: this is FB12122106.)
@siracusa I had a thought, mostly based on the jumpiness near other windows. Does disabling window snapping make things better (option when dragging/resizing)?
That jumpiness has the look of lag+overaggressive snapping.
I'm looking for someone with access to a 2019 Mac Pro (preferably with a Radeon Pro Vega II GPU) to try to reproduce FB13211706 as demonstrated in https://youtu.be/5Aq2GZpKkLU
Has Apple tried to reproduce it internally? I don't know. I've had no response in the Feedback app since I filed my original report six months ago. So I'm looking for a someone who is willing to actually communicate with me to tell me if it's just my Mac or what.
@stroughtonsmith @siracusa I reproduced it! Intel Mac Mini. about 50 textedit windows with Lorem Ipsum, two stickies, and lots of jagged dragging.
Waitasec. Now it's not doing it. wtf? Dragged the ivory compose window to a different screen, dragged sticky note, was fine for a moment, then jumped all over the place, then settled down and is normal again.
Huh. Once the sticky note is left in the pile of Textedit windows, it seems to be okay, but when I move it outside the pile and wait a moment, after a few drag attempts it gets all wonky again.
Definiteliy comes and goes.
2018 Mac Mini, i5, 32 gig, 13.5.1.
@siracusa any chance you’re accidentally holding down the shift key? 🤣 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVPfHp6ixlQ
(I am joking, of course… and sad to see this feature got removed at some point.)
@siracusa /Library/LaunchAgents and /Library/LaunchDaemons — with Daemons launching before user login and Agents after, but both are persistent. Same of course for ~/Library/LaunchAgents
My personal bet is on the /Library ones outside of a user folder because they would apply to new user accounts.
@siracusa John, when did this bug first appear for you? Like which version of macOS?
I wonder if that holds any clues, like if you have a configuration file or preference from that far back that the new system doesn’t like, or maybe there’s a naughty key or something in one of those retained files that doesn’t play well.
@siracusa I just gave it a try on my multiuser 13.5.2 box (M1 Ultra Studio with 64GB), which is an increasingly-crufty installation (migrated from a 2012 Mac Pro.) Couldn't repro, even with >128 windows open. Fg user was admin, bg was normal; no idea if that would matter.
If nothing else, if you see something suspicious, I could double-check against that install to see if I have the suspicious item.
@siracusa
Does it only happen with several windows open, as shown in your demonstration video?
Regarding 3, do both users have apps/windows open? Or is it sufficient to have the other user logged in with nothing open?
Does it still happen if you start in safe mode?
Does it matter _how_ you move the windows? Like, circular motion triggers the problem, but linear motion doesn’t?
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