Mastodawn

Vontre Sep 12, 2023

I spent most of the time I've been trying to run a game company regretting the early decision to not use Unity for my project. But reading this, I'm really, really, *really* glad I don't have Unity anywhere in my stack

https://blog.unity.com/news/plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates

Things that stand out here:

- The pricing plan is baffling. It's like they designed it to make it impossible for you to make rational decisions about what you're getting into
- If they bait-switch you like this now, what will they do in ANOTHER 2 years?

Unity plan pricing and packaging updates | Unity Blog

In January 2024, Unity will introduce a new Unity Runtime Fee based on game installs. Prior to this, Unity subscription plans will add cloud-based asset storage, Unity DevOps tools, and AI at runtime at no additional cost.

Unity Blog

mcc Sep 12, 2023

Additional thoughts:

- The "AI" parts of this announcement would by itself be a reason to stop using Unity
- Having a per-seat license AND a per-install fee is just so insulting. Like, pick one, sister
- Godot has improved SO MUCH lately. I know people shipping commercial games with it now.
- Godot can to some degree import Unity projects. I'm not sure how well it works but there's a Godot plugin that claims it can import scenes/assets. I wonder if we''ll see increased activity around that now.

mcc Sep 12, 2023

Last thought:

- The decision to make the fee based on lifetime sales of *a game* sounds very easy to game unless the TOS has some clever language around what constitutes a single game. Will this have visible knock-on effects to game *players*? In other words, doesn't this rule create an incentive to shut down and "relaunch" FTP live-service games repeatedly? People already complain a lot about their phone games shutting down after they accumulated loot and whatnot. Will this make it worse?

13 barn owls in a trenchcoat Sep 12, 2023

@mcc I absolutely guarantee that some solo/microstudio indie devs will get absolutely shafted by this when they suddenly realise they were supposed to been hanging on to 20 cents per sale after their $1 game unexpectedly sold 500,000 copies after becoming a streamer meme one week.

Not using any reference point of game price and studio revenue in all this is wild.

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@HauntedOwlbear I frankly don't even know how I'm supposed to *know* how many copies of any games I've ever made got installed, except for the one that was on the iPhone. What if I had, say, put some sort of DLC in my game, such this accidentally got to $200,000.01 of revenue? Does Unity expect me to put phone-home code in my game? Am I supposed to be keeping fucking *cookies* on my users?

bgt lover Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @HauntedOwlbear yes they do expect you to do that, big or indie game alike. I decided a long time ago, screw big corp

Dieu Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @HauntedOwlbear is there any way to know they don't do that for you?

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@hllizi @HauntedOwlbear I don't know. This is why my games are based on fricking open source to start with! So I can actually know what I'm fricking shipping

Dieu Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @HauntedOwlbear I am fully on board with that.

Dieu Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @HauntedOwlbear where can I find your games, btw? Might be interesting.

Dieu Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @HauntedOwlbear ha ok, it's in your profile after all.

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@hllizi @HauntedOwlbear https://runhello.com - Games made before 2015, run on Windows (or very old Mac OS). Recommend "Jumpman" and "Icosa".

https://dryad.technology/ — Abstract web games, unfortunately sound may not work in some of them because Chrome changed things after they were published. Recommend "Become a Great Artist"

https://mermaid.industries — Current project, unreleased, unfortunately you can't play it RN but there's a video

Run Hello » Games

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@hllizi @HauntedOwlbear I'm just leaving a slug trail of content as I move from site to site and watch parts of my past stop working as OSes and web browsers change. "LOL"

Dieu Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @HauntedOwlbear perfect use case for nix, archiving your games.

Dieu Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @HauntedOwlbear regarding Mermaid I'm probably not enough of a gamer anyway to get myself a VR set as long as it doesn't provide the only habitable environment. Might check in five years. 😬

0xC0DEC0DE07EA Sep 12, 2023

@HauntedOwlbear @mcc yeah, 20 cents out of a $60 launch title is very different than out of a game that is set at $5 and goes on sale frequently

gkrnours Sep 12, 2023

@mcc this also imply always on telemetry

mcc Sep 12, 2023

Mirrors And Stuff Sep 12, 2023

@mcc Christ, this is as complicated as an IBM pricing structure

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@mirrorsandstuff

Janne Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @mirrorsandstuff wait that isn't progressive, the prices apply retroactively ?.?

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@janvenetor @mirrorsandstuff I have carefully read the "detailed FAQ" and my answer to your question is: I have absolutely no idea. Despite the hyper-detailed table they are so opaque about who owes money, when, and how much

Janne Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @mirrorsandstuff horrible. Unit pricing is one difficult nut to crack, but this is either a horrible communication failure after a knee jerk or a brain fart. Geez.

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@janvenetor @mirrorsandstuff It definitely seems likely this decision was made by a very small group of executives at Unity, and the poor (unclear) quality of the writing in the announcement and FAQ seems to suggest it didn't even go through their normal communications people

🆘Bill Cole 🇺🇦Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @janvenetor @mirrorsandstuff Probably AI-written…

Blake Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @janvenetor @mirrorsandstuff

am currently at a company working with Unity so I was a little surprised to hear they're packing their "AI" in as some kind of consolation prize

our games have absolutely no use for any of the listed features, so I have a general selfish disinterest (it won't make *my* life any easier), but I thought it wasn't ready yet... and if you just click one click away to 'Documentation' you'll find...

"This package is available as an experimental package, so it is not ready for production use. The features and documentation in this package might change before it is verified for release."

dot. dot. dot.

https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.[email protected]/manual/index.html

Sentis overview | Sentis | 1.0.0-exp.6

Rob Bos Sep 12, 2023

@mcc
i wonder if you could get fired because your org has 100,001 headcount and firing you is cheaper than paying the extra license fee

@mirrorsandstuff

Stian Soiland-Reyes Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @mirrorsandstuff made by someone who must have celebrated the millennium in 2001 ..

Canageek Sep 12, 2023

@mcc geese, partnering with a malware company wasn't enough‽

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@Canageek Maybe they partnered with the malware company so they would have the tech to track how many installed copies of other people's games there are

reaply Pop&NetBSD🚩Sep 12, 2023

I was reading this about ten minutes ago myself. It's shocking, but at the same time, it's not. The CEO of Unity made some outrage claims that include things like, calling developers fucking idiots if they don't put ads in their games.

Unity keeps putting it's self in the ground and making the only options between Godot and Unreal Engine.

Brian Moakley Sep 12, 2023

@reaply @mcc Yeah, Riccitiello was once the CEO of Electronic Arts so his behavior is very much on brand.

@mcc sure you have to pay a per install fee BUT you also get a discount for Unity AI bs, it's a great deal really

Working Class Games Sep 12, 2023

@mcc I've been experimenting with Godot and I'm very impressed. It feels a lot like the devs actually use their own product (they do) and it's made for indie devs.

I already thought I should switch, this just speeds things up.

mollydot Sep 12, 2023

@workingclassgames
I've been meaning to try unity, and don't think I'd heard of godot. I've switched goals now
@mcc @cwebber

cthos 🐱Sep 12, 2023

@mcc it feels like Unity and Unreal Engine have been doing this “who’s royalty structure appeals to small studios more” dance for a while now, and yeah this seems needlessly obtuse. 🤔

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@cthos What the announcement says to me is Unity specifically believes their "audience" are creators of cookie-cutter, app-store-flooding live-service games who will make use of the flippable-asset and AI features they're including in the deal. That's virtually the only segment where the pricing "makes sense". For indie devs the structure's bafflingly punitive, for AAA devs the price is bafflingly lowball, but for "FTP" devs it just slots in a spreadsheet in the "user acquisition cost" column.

cthos 🐱Sep 12, 2023

@mcc yeah that analysis makes sense and good gods that’s depressing. See also their play to intice mobile devs to use the Unity ad service: https://peoplemaking.games/@glassbottommeg/111052603378474768

Megan Fox (@[email protected])

Oh fuck, @gord pointed out this is also a grab for your ad revenue. "Developers of free-to-play games (which have a much higher install rate than premium titles) will have the option to offset this fee by adopting other Unity services, such as its LevelPlay advertising mediation service." Yeah fuck you very much Unity, you had everyone over a barrel and thought "well who's gonna stop me". (We're fine, but I know a whole lot of devs who will be shitting bricks, because mobile has been low-margin for years now)

People Making Games

Gil Pedersen Sep 12, 2023

@mcc @cthos FTP is really the only model this can work with, given that this fee would apply to pirated installs. Suddenly piracy is not just lost revenue, but an actual cost!

lord pthenq1 Sep 12, 2023

Unity is bad exactly because they are used to change pricing like nothing...

Now you are paying some price, but you know exactly how much.

mcc Sep 12, 2023

1. You only know how much you're paying if you know how many people installed your game.

2. You don't know how much you're paying. If they raised the prices this year, they could raise the prices next year.

Chris Renfrow Sep 12, 2023

@mcc sounds like #unity has fully committed to the enshittification of its platform.

Levi Bard Sep 12, 2023

@mcc Wow, what. the. fuck.

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@Tak If I had a business relationship with this company right now I'd be *very* unhappy. (And I know at least one person who has a business relationship with this company who is very unhappy right now)

Levi Bard Sep 12, 2023

@mcc At least two

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@Tak The morning is yet young

Stevoisiak Sep 12, 2023

@mcc Oh how Unity has fallen

Kevin Boyd (he/him) 🇨🇦Sep 12, 2023

@mcc my son started teaching himself programming earlier this month, by following Unity game dev tutorials. Hopefully this won't be a kick in the face for him & his plans.

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@kboyd A game which never makes more than $200,000 will never trigger the Unity licensing requirements. If someone were starting to make free games today, I would suggest not using Unity because the longer they stay in the Unity ecosystem the harder it will be to get out. And maybe once suddenly the licensing starts biting (or changes again) it will be too late to get out.

I would probably not give this advice to a minor. The point at which it "bites" is too far in the future.

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@kboyd This said, I think it's *possible* that if your son wanted to retrain to Godot (or even PlayCanvas) he would find it easy at this early stage. I'm not sure, if I were in your shoes, if I'd really encourage him to do this though. This is because (1) the quality of tutorials for Unity might be better, and (2) open source dad pushing you to use Linux Game Engine might lead to a negative reaction, lol

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@kboyd Raising a child sounds extremely difficult to me

Kevin Boyd (he/him) 🇨🇦Sep 12, 2023

@mcc Yep. Especially when he has the same temperament and fuse as me ... :)

Kevin Boyd (he/him) 🇨🇦Sep 12, 2023

@mcc yeah, I'm not going to say anything about it to him - don't want to discourage. And it's still a great way to learn C#, which is a largely transferable skill.

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@kboyd In fact, C# skills are transferrable to Godot.

@mcc This is going to hurt so many indie game creators relying on #Unity 😐

All good things when combined with public company capitalism must be ruined and milked for every last penny until it sucks ass and is a shadow of its original self...

#Enshittification strikes again.

mhoye Sep 12, 2023

@mcc Some very solid "now we are in the part of the cavernous, decaying industrial complex where the the large bugs are" energy in this, thank you.

EVHaste Sep 12, 2023

@mcc Unity is outrageous. I was already considering uninstalling after their last decision re: in game ads. They just keep getting worse and less developer friendly.

I’ve never given Godot a try. Perhaps now I will

🇺🇦Sep 12, 2023

@mcc 1) are any of their executives recently from Oracle? 2) This sounds disturbingly like Reddit's handling of their API changes and pricing impacts on developers - devastating, but Reddit decision makers didn't care (except about being disrespected) because their target was VC funded AI companies not actual users.

And 3) does this mean that if I buy an iOS game and put it on a phone *and* iPad that it costs the dev more? And if it's shareable with family they may lose money on my purchase?

mcc Sep 12, 2023

@fencepost Re question (3)— that is correct per my reading of the FAQ and according to journalist Stephen Totilo he has confirmed with the company this is the case

🇺🇦Sep 12, 2023

@mcc every game dev with something in Apple Arcade or Google's equivalent had better start the process of removing their games immediately.