Mastodawn

Graham Jul 16, 2023

Mastodon Migration

#Threads is not federating with #Mastodon. Not anytime soon, maybe not ever.

In case you missed the #Meta inside information from the Verge's Alex Heath: "Re: ActivityPub integration, it's still a priority for Threads but a "long" way out." https://mastodon.social/@alexeheath/110713788758597963

This whole federating with Threads thing has never made any sense and now we see it is very likely they have just been playing us the whole time. Let's stop falling for this nonsense and get back to building great open social media.

Idealistic Pragmatist

@mastodonmigration they’re not playing US, they’re playing the kinds of people who signed up to Threads on the basis of it joining the Fediverse.

Ryan2one3 Jul 15, 2023

@IPEdmonton @mastodonmigration not sure the people who signed up to Threads even know what the Fediverse is. Most are just those mindless influencers and wannabes who want to expand their reach.

Stark Jul 15, 2023

@ryan2one3 @IPEdmonton @mastodonmigration

Yeah, I have to agree. It is just influencers and people wanting the next fad or who wanted to gain the most followers by being the first movers.

Claude Gohier Jul 15, 2023

@IPEdmonton @mastodonmigration
How many thousands of people is that?

💾Jul 16, 2023

@IPEdmonton @mastodonmigration I didn’t sign up for Threads because I just figured I’d follow people there from here if they ever do that (which looks like they won’t).

frater mus Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration Folks with walled gardens generally don't like to take down the walls

fromthenorth Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration thanks, I didn’t know he had a Mastodon account. I’d like to see more public figures in the trusted media on Mastodon.

Tim Chambers Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration I give it 4 to 6 months. Plenty of time to prep and build here…

Brendan Jones Jul 15, 2023

@tchambers @mastodonmigration I'm not a gambling man but I think I want to start a pool for bets on:

1. When Threads will launch in the EU.
2. When Threads will federate (full federation, not just read-only).
3. When Threads will get defederated by the majority of instances (by instance user count).

My bets:
1. By 18 months from now
2. More than 2 years from now
3. By 2 months after full federation

@Brendanjones @tchambers @mastodonmigration do we also need to count the number of instances that will refuse to federate?

Brendan Jones Jul 15, 2023

@maddler @tchambers @mastodonmigration I’d count instances that never federate as defederated, yes.

Shit, what have I got myself in for 😅

o ifrit 🌱Jul 16, 2023

@tchambers @mastodonmigration 1. never
2. never
3. not possible because of 2.

Mastodon Migration Jul 15, 2023

@tchambers Please at least entertain the possibility that this is and has always been a PR stunt. The more time you waste chasing after these guys, the less you spend focused on building out this amazing open social media revolution.

Meg Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration @tchambers I mean, whether it's threads or not something big is eventually going to come knocking. I think a lot of the current discussion is a pretty valuable exercise in what we need to improve for when it happens.

Right now it's an emergency if it does. Hopefully if there's more time (whether 6 months or 6 years) there will either be better tools in place to allow "federation at a distance," or at least a more coordinated and less bitter process is available for deciding what to do about it.

Raven Onthill Jul 15, 2023

@megmac @mastodonmigration @tchambers hey, how come you people at treehouse keep making sense?

Mastodon Migration Jul 15, 2023

@megmac @tchambers Agreed. Fortifying the Fediverse in general is a very worthwhile pursuit. And being cognizant of threats is part of sensible strategy. However, overreacting to every manipulative utterance, reading tea leaves, and getting spun up over specific detailed imagined scenarios is not just a waste of time. It is destructive because it makes us weak and subject to their deceitful tactics. We are powerful. It is our network. No one is going to take it away from us.

Daniel Gill Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration @tchambers I'm curious what constitutes "chasing" in your mind? Presumably there's some misallocation of time and resources you're concerned about, but I'm not aware what that could be here beyond (a) spending free time following the news cycle around Threads, or (b) championing some new features for Mastodon or the #ActivityPub standard which seem to me pretty useful & good to have regardless of whether Threads ever federates?

Mastodon Migration Jul 15, 2023

@dwgill @tchambers Sure it is great to improve our technology, but the other place this plays out is the impact on our community. Likely Meta doesn't care about this at all and is just using us as a PR play to burnish their new cuddly friendly image as a reborn open system pioneer. But it does matter to us that we have to deal with a schism that has started to emerge due to their manipulative tactics. In general, we should be acting proactively not reacting to them and giving them power over us.

Mr. Pataphor, Dadaist Dad Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration @dwgill @tchambers

Linonophobia is the abnormal fear of string/threads.
Preparation is not the same as phobia. Unfortunately, the negative/abusive experiences on social media have traumatized folks getting their knickers in a knot, rather than building & preparing an even better social media experience, as more check out Mastodon and other parts of the Fediverse.
Fear of Threads triggers Mastodon FediBlock Anxiety.

Tim Chambers Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration Wise advice: I see it as likely now mostly due to development I’ve seen and how omnipresent it is in their current UI, but you are right, they could endlessly delay, or end up saying “we thought we could integrate safely but couldn’t.” But I see it as a spur to get things done that should happen anyway, and will be needed whenever the next big service integrates in.

Mastodon Migration Jul 15, 2023

@tchambers Agreed. But we should do these thing proactively, not reactively. If this is a wake up call that we should be fortifying the Fediverse, that's great. We should be establishing protocols for response to the general threat of large instances popping up that may not have moderation standards that meet #Fediverse norms. We should be actively improving #ActivityPub and all of the other Fediverse apps with an eye toward such threats. We should be funding our good instances with donations.

Mike Spooner Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration @tchambers Although, they *might*, perhaps, be waiting until October to clarify certain legal restrictions/obligations:

https://mastodon.social/@fediversereport/110713181734148520

Mastodon Migration Jul 15, 2023

@shelldozer @tchambers 🤦‍♂️

Fluz Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration if meta didn’t look like
It wanted to federate, there would be an outcry to federate. But it explored federation and the fediverse, protested strongly against it, so now they can do what they want while avoiding the scrutiny from the fediverse. They played it brilliantly. As the 800 lbs gorilla they’re away of how everyone would react to them.

Kansas Grant Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration Speaking as someone who is losing interest in Mastodon due to getting very little engagement here, I'll get glad to replace Elon Musk's Twitter with anything that provides the same level of engagement. Even if it's from Mark Zuckerberg.

Octavia Con Amore

pink_moon_and_stars

Succubard's Library Jul 15, 2023

@KansasGrant @mastodonmigration Hmm, that's odd but interesting. I've heard a few artists (including you) that haven't gotten very good engagement here You don't seem to be one of those "got to fedi, followed 3 people, complains about not seeing anything good" people that I see so often, either.

For me, it's been a breath of fresh air. I've gotten 10x the engagement that I ever had on FB or Insta, and the engagement I do get feels really genuine I genuinely hope things change for the better for you here because I think the fedi has a lot to give us artists

Tom Ritchford Jul 16, 2023

@KansasGrant @mastodonmigration Another perspective - perhaps "engagement" is not either what you really want, or what is good for you.

I could get random people "engaged" by going up to them and insulting them, but is this actually a good thing?

I like this Fascist-free, thoughtful space. I wouldn't trade it for ten times the engagement with the Trumpistas, the vaccine conspiracists, the racists and the Nazies.

ScottMGS Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration And even if they *did* federate what are the chances that non-Threads posts would get any "algorithm" love and show up there?

katy ✨Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration The bigger worry is Meta getting people on the Activity Pub board and pressuring them to change the protocol in ways that benefits Meta

Mastodon Migration Jul 15, 2023

@pixiekat Excellent point! Expect this is the next thing they will do to mess with us. Expect to start hearing something along the lines of: "We would federate with you, but we need this and that change to #ActivityPub." Remember these guys are masters at this game. Nothing they say can be taken at face value.

lawyerlarge Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration bro threads is already dead

Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration hopefully we're too small and weird for corporate social media to understand, let alone meddle with.

Mastodon Migration Jul 15, 2023

@Lazarou Agreed. But not too small to extract some PR benefit from.

Avoid the Hack!

@mastodonmigration aye aye captain.

Huntn00 Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration I’m ignorant, is #Meta willing to give up control acting like an open access non-profit, or are they thinking about joining the Federated Network, but keep their portion controlled and profitable?

Mastodon Migration Jul 15, 2023

@Huntn00 Exactly. No one knows. None of this has ever made any business sense.

saadoun Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration i think they didn’t expect taht many users and they don’t want to risk exposing these users to a better platform

RickJ Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration Of course they're not going to integrate with the Fediverse, why would they, what's the incentive for them?
My assumption is they just used an existing protocol rather than build their own. Like WhatsApp used the Signal protocol but has no interest in inter-working.
Suckerberg's ambition has always been to rule the Internet, so that people view the 'net & Meta services as synonymous.

Shoq 🌿Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration
I was always a bit suspicious that they were playing us, but I’m not totally convinced they are. Offloading content servers to other third parties could be the best thing that ever happened to Facebook and the world. They’ve been fearful of regulation for years. So I would not say it doesn’t make sense. Some of it makes a lot of sense. But that doesn’t mean they’ll do it either.

digital Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration

Differing perspective on this: Meta is in a position where they really don't have to care about the fediverse if they desire. They have a chokehold on the social media market. I do not think they would build out infrastructure like this unless it was a long withstanding plan.

Certainly, they have zero interest in poaching people due to mastodon; they have all the people they need from their other applications. This seems like overblowing a standard dev q&a

tapafon Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration It makes no sense anyway, since most (if not all) admins would ban threads anyway.

Ekesleight Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration As far as I can see, federating with Threads or anything else affiliated with the Zuck would be a terrible idea. It would all be in service of his mission to mine and sell all the data he can contrive to reach.

Paul Hulford Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration @jonah long enough out that people will forget it was even mentioned 🤣

Kyote Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration 🙌🏾🙌🏾 GREAT news!

JW prince of CPH Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration Squire, fetch my surprised face... 😑

Todd Walker Jul 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration when I saw that talk about federating during Threads signup, I laughed my ass off. Not gonna happen in a million years.

Decker harrison Jul 16, 2023

@mastodonmigration
Am I supposed to be annoyed 🤔 nope, less people less NOISE 👍👏

Sascha Pallenberg 🇹🇼 ♻️ ⚡Jul 16, 2023

@mastodonmigration so we are talking about how many people that signed up for Threads because of a future federated version?

Seriously... no one joined #Threads because of #activitypub

They signed because of #Twitter #Meta and #Instagram

AliasAKA Jul 16, 2023

@mastodonmigration

I suspect at least part of it was laying the groundwork for federating if they didn’t hit sign up targets. They got their target and so don’t want to federate. They likely don’t have a good monetization strategy yet — it will be difficult to serve only the content that drives engagement alongside ads especially when the control over that federated content may be difficult to exert.

That said, I wish strongly for an end to ad-based social sites.

BardyB Jul 16, 2023

@mastodonmigration don't ruin this platform with any integration with META.

re-curse Jul 16, 2023

@mastodonmigration ... The influx of consent moderation requirements to maintainers of current mastodon instances would be just too large to be handled.

But for meta it would pose the same problem. They'd have much less info about the users and the posts to make a decent filtering.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS94UW9hcXVBcg/episode/ZGQ0YTZmYWUtZjViYS00ZjkwLTkxOGMtN2JlNTljYWZkZjUy?ep=14

Moderated Content - MC Weekly Update: Hanging by a Thread

Stanford’s Evelyn Douek and Alex Stamos weigh in on the latest online trust and safety news and developments: Threads v. Twitter * Instagram’s Twitter competitor Threads is the fastest downloaded app, boasting more than 100 million users within five days despite pretty basic features. - Jay Peters, Jon Porter/ _The Verge_ * Instagram head Adam Mosseri said Threads will be a place for sports and entertainment over politics and news. We say good luck with that! - Rohan Goswami/ _CNBC_, Jay Peters/ _The Verge_, _@mosseri_ * Musk is taking it well... tweeting that the showdown against Zuckerberg should be a literal measurement of manhood and threatening to sue Meta. - Matt Novak/ _Forbes_, Rohan Goswami/ _CNBC_ * But don’t worry, Elon, you still have a fan in the Taliban. - _@AnasHaqqani313_ * The content moderation challenges will only get more difficult for Threads, especially on a decentralized protocol. - _@alexstamos_ * Despite the early success, Threads can’t take flight over Twitter in the EU yet due to uncertainty with forthcoming competition regulations under the Digital Markets Act. - Jillian Deutsch, Stephanie Bodoni/ Bloomberg News, Makena Kelly/ _The Verge_ * The European Union officially signed off on a new data-transfer deal with the United States. Now, we have to wait and see if it will once again falter under a legal challenge. - Adam Satariano, Monika Pronczuk, David McCabe/ _The New York Times_, _European Commission_ * There was frankly frightening rhetoric in the EU threatening to cut off social media platforms during unrest from French President Emmanuel Macron and EU Commissioner Thierry Breton. These are disappointing statements and flippancy about the importance of free expression. - Laura Kayali, Alexandre Léchenet/ _Politico_, Clothilde Goujard, Nicolas Camut/ _Politico_ * A U.S. Court of Appeals in the D.C. Circuit upheld FOSTA against a First Amendment challenge. - Gustavo Turner/ _XBIZ_ Join the conversation and connect with Evelyn and Alex on Twitter at @evelyndouek and @alexstamos. Moderated Content is produced in partnership by Stanford Law School and the Cyber Policy Center. Special thanks to John Perrino for research and editorial assistance. Like what you heard? Don’t forget to subscribe and share the podcast with friends!

Google Podcasts

Tom Ritchford Jul 16, 2023

@mastodonmigration One of the few topics I've been yelled at here is when I said, perfectly politely, that I came here to get away from these guys and that I'd leave any instance that federated with them.

We have twenty years' experience with Facebook, all bad. There is no doubt to give them the benefit of....

Resuna Jul 16, 2023

@mastodonmigration Brazil? Oh, it's Orkut 2.0.

Bèr Kessels 🐝 🚐 🏄 🌱Jul 16, 2023

@mastodonmigration a lot of people seem to miss why Meta wants this.

It's never meant to lure in indieweb enthusiasts or libre lovers.

It's because the EU is going to force them. And they can avoid difficult (US) political issues. Regulation is in the pipeline in the EU to enforce operability for large networks. Not AP per se, though.
And in the upcoming US elections, banning a president/candidate is a much easier choice when they can move to their own server.

So yes. Meta will offer this.

wheatley gaming Jul 16, 2023

@mastodonmigration

Neonriser Jul 17, 2023

@mastodonmigration Whew! Thank god! I was going to block some Threads instances! I was worried until you guys cleared things up!