Another Angry Woman
Feel like there's a typo here but I cannot for the life of me figure out what they *meant* to say
Jul 12, 2023 at 7:48pmWeb
Show threadAnother Angry WomanJul 12, 2023
Astronomers using the James Webb Space Telescope: 😡🤬😤
Show threadPete Alex Harris🦡🕸️🌲/∞🪐∫Jul 12, 2023

@stavvers
JWST: *turns to face Earth*
*focuses and zooms in on Boca Chica*

Astronomer: right you bastard, let's see how you like THIS reflected sunlight.

JWST: telescope mirrors slowly adjust...

Show threadAngela Glansbury 🚽Jul 13, 2023
@stavvers
⭐ 🔭 😾
Show threadChris TurnbowJul 12, 2023
@stavvers
"earnest", perhaps? As in, the astronomers were angry in the most serious way :D
Show thread🔥Cassandra🔥Jul 13, 2023

@cturnbow @stavvers

Were they using it otherwise before then? Like, they had occasional access, but now it was released to them entirely (to begin using in earnest)?

Show threadSophieJul 12, 2023
@stavvers do you mean “using in anger”? It’s as less common turn of phrase but it means “using for real”
Show threadAnother Angry WomanJul 12, 2023
@sophie I've literally never heard this construction in my life
Show threadSophieJul 12, 2023
@stavvers clearly the people around you weren’t using that phrase in anger
Show threadSophieJul 12, 2023
@stavvers “have you tried GPT-4?” “I’ve played with it a bit. Haven’t used it in anger, but it seems interesting” (shit example but you get the picture)
Show threadFeralRobotsJul 12, 2023
@sophie @stavvers
yeh at a guess I think I probably learned that phrase from silver-age science fiction. feels like something Silverberg or Heinlein would say. I remember using it in front of my dad once (probably about digging with a new shovel or something) & him thinking it was funny.
Show threadmoved servers ➡ @[email protected]Jul 13, 2023
@sophie @stavvers
ohh it's a British thing
Show threadJenJul 12, 2023
@sophie @stavvers I did not know this was not known. I love how varied and wonderful language can be.
Show threadgregopetJul 12, 2023
@stavvers @sophie I've seen it used in military jargon ("The royal navy hasn't fired any guns in anger for the last 5 years") and I feel it may be more British (but I'm not a native speaker so I may be completely off on this).
Show threadAnother Angry WomanJul 12, 2023
@gregopet @sophie I've definitely heard that regarding weapons, specifically, and always assumed it meant as in aggression
Show threadOpenDNA⚙️Jul 13, 2023
@stavvers @gregopet @sophie I recall Jimmy Carter talking about his presidency as not having "fired a shot in anger". I didn't really understand what he meant.
Show threadBen AvelingJul 13, 2023
@gregopet @sophie @stavvers exactly. A shot intended to kill something, rather for training or testing.
In anger => not mucking around.
Show threadEvelynJul 13, 2023
@gregopet @stavvers @sophie Using that phrase outside of any weapons-related context seems like a very British turn of speech: “Some of these swim toys might as well be brand new: I don’t think any of us have used a pool noodle in anger all summer.”
Show threadTattie (old account)Jul 13, 2023
@gorfram *wields pool noodle furiously*
@gregopet @stavvers @sophie
Show threadEvelynJul 13, 2023
@Tattie @gregopet @stavvers @sophie 🤣🤣🤣
Show threadAngela Glansbury 🚽Jul 13, 2023

@gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie
Ok everyone, I am in a library with a decent reference section today.

"in anger" doesn't feature in Oxford shorter dictionary, Websters international, Oxford Phrase and Fable, Brewers Phrase and Fable (or Brewers Irish, London, or modern).

However it is in The Cassel Dictionary of Slang. Dated (1970+) and no origin.

I'll follow up that suggestion it may be military slang.

Show threadAngela Glansbury 🚽Jul 13, 2023
@gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie
no mention in dictionaries of ww1 or ww2 slang. No mention on the Economist or Guardian style guides. I'll dig into Hansard and The Times in my own time. I appreciate I will be exhausting some people's patience so will keep my research to myself.
Show threadAnother Angry WomanJul 13, 2023
@floppyplopper @gorfram @gregopet @sophie Please do tell me, this is genuinely fascinating
Show threadRachel GreenhamJul 13, 2023
@stavvers @floppyplopper @gorfram @gregopet @sophie I grew up (in SE England) with that being relatively common parlance. Not a military family or setting btw; surprised to find it less common than i'd assumed. Have used it myself casually, sometimes in anger, occasionally in blind hissing fury, but most often in mild peevishness. (along with riffs on it like those.) confirm "proper" usage is like "for real", “in production", "no longer practicing/testing” etc.
Show threadAngela Glansbury 🚽Jul 13, 2023

@stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie
my instinct is that during the cold war at some point people became concerned about the uk's war readiness and so you might see in the times or hansard the phrase "XX Batallion of whatever has not fired a shot in anger [to distinguish it from test firing or training] for over 20 years, blah blah blah". This was possibly taken up as humorous but still military, as in "XX canteen hasn't fried an egg in over 20 years". to out of military context but still humorous "that idle sod hasn't done X in anger for over 20 years" to people losing the context and humour as in the report you posted today.

Just conjecture. I have heard "in anger" used before and just assumed meaning from context as you do with all language. I hadn't considered how funny it sounds.

Show threadAngela Glansbury 🚽Jul 13, 2023
@stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie
I'd always assumed it was a mondegreen based on something in Latin but now I'm doubting myself.
Show threadChristopher PhinJul 13, 2023
@floppyplopper @stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie Data point: I’ve made a conscious effort to _stop_ using this phrase as although it seems perfectly cromulent to me, it’s apparently 😅 not well known, and gets met with bafflement (or a perfectly justifiable assumption of aggression).
Show threadPassengerJul 13, 2023

@floppyplopper @stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie
I heard a tale about where it comes from, which is probably not true.

According to the tale, it comes from the era of the battleship race in the late 19th / early 20th century, where European countries were spending fortunes building ever-larger fleets of ever-larger ships that they never actually used.

When one of these warships got scrapped, having gone obsolete from the floating-metal equivalent of Moore's Law, it was described as having "never fired a shot in anger."

Show threadersatzmausJul 13, 2023

@floppyplopper @stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie I have seen and used this construction. The OED has it:

https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/7498?result=1&rskey=3HPgxN&

b. With serious or hostile intent; not as a practice or drill; in earnest.
1612 … neuer rose againe to draw sword in anger.
⋮
1885 … never commanded a regiment or fired a shot in anger.
1977 … He is the only one of us to have ridden a bicycle in anger, …
⋮
2014 … No other woman would drive a Formula 1 car in anger again until 1974.

Show threadMatthewJul 13, 2023
@ersatzmaus @floppyplopper @stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie This is exactly it; I’ve always understood it with this meaning
Show threadBrooks DavisJul 13, 2023

@floppyplopper @stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie
Interesting that it’s origins are poorly documented.

I feel like it’s part of my largely American vocabulary, but I’ve worked my entire career at companies that work for the department of defense and have spent over a year working in Cambridge, UK over the last decade so it could be from either or both and I’ve lost track of where I picked it up.

I do think I’ve also read it in military SF... (see also “pear shaped”)

Show threadHugo MillsJul 13, 2023

@floppyplopper @gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie It's definitely part of my personal collection of idioms, exactly as used in the original quote up-thread.

(Mind you, so is "That's a different kettle of borscht", so YMMV...)

Show threadKnut MoråJul 13, 2023
@floppyplopper
The bbc at least confirms with some experts that it is military: https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/radio/specials/1837_aae/page22.shtml but with no named reference:/
@gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie
BBC World Service | Learning English | Ask about English

English language experts answers students' language questions.

Show threadEleanor SaittaJul 13, 2023
@floppyplopper
I use it; I'm not sure where I picked it up from, but quite possibly US military folks
@gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie
Show threadMike J👹🐀 🤘🏻Jul 13, 2023
@floppyplopper @gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie I've heard it thousands of times, even used it myself, no idea where it comes from. This is one for @grantbarrett
Show threadJohn YoungJul 13, 2023

@gorfram I have used “in anger” in a computer context for a long time as a sort of nerdy what-ho Britishism: “I’ve prototyped graphQL, but haven’t yet used it in anger.”

I like your pool noodle example even better.

Show threadCarolyn M JonesJul 13, 2023
@gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie Brit here, confirming that this (non-military context) is indeed, a very British turn of speech
Show threadAilbheJul 13, 2023
@stavvers @sophie I thought you were referring to "science birthday" because "using in anger" is so embedded in my idiolect
Show threadsamir, a terminally deprecated methodJul 13, 2023

@stavvers @sophie FWIW, I’ve used this for a very long time. No idea where I got it from. I am confident I have seen it written, but not so sure that I’ve heard many other people say it.

For context, I was born in south London 30-odd years ago and lived there until recently.

Show threadBen CurthoysJul 13, 2023

@stavvers @sophie I didn't know that it wasn't commonplace. I couldn't work out what was wrong when I first saw the original post.

Always understood it as meaning "for real", not as a test or training. You would be using a fire extinguisher "in anger" if you used it to put out a real fire that had started by accident, whether or not you were cross about it.

Show threadBen CurthoysJul 13, 2023
@stavvers @sophie I just tried to explain this to my partner and she looked at me like I was mental and said that you can't use a telescope in anger unless you hate the sky.
Show threadThomas Buck Jul 13, 2023
@bencurthoys @stavvers @sophie I mean, I think I have when the moon’s too bright *shakes fist at sky*
Show threadDuckyJul 13, 2023
@tom @bencurthoys @stavvers @sophie
when the moon hits your eye
and you want to see why
that's in anger
Show threadTattie (old account)Jul 13, 2023

@tom aw, now you made it sad and it needs cheering up.

'Scuse me while I kiss the sky.
@bencurthoys @stavvers @sophie

Show threadDave BulmerJul 13, 2023
@bencurthoys @stavvers @sophie wait, what? What's this that's happening? Who says this? Did the Oasis song mean this?? What???
Show threadRobJul 15, 2023
@bencurthoys @stavvers @sophie I picked up the construction of using something “in anger” when I used a piece of research software not to evaluate the software but because I wanted it to help me do my work: I was the first person to use the software “in anger” and I liked it because it captured my expectation that it just work so I could do my work and my frustration when it fell short
Show threadAdvanced Persistent TeapotJul 13, 2023
@stavvers @sophie I've seen it plenty... huh, I really thought it was a common English idiom, and when you first posted I thought you were not being serious and I'd somehow failed to understand what you were getting at
Show threadChris BohnJul 13, 2023
@stavvers @sophie I suspect that construction comes from weaponry (at least, this is the only context I've used it ironically), distinguishing between training/practice and use against an enemy.
Show threadJos DingjanJul 13, 2023
@stavvers @sophie As a non-native but by now fluent speaker I don’t know any better than “to $verb in anger” as a well-established expression.
Show thread💀andrzej💀Jul 12, 2023
@sophie @stavvers TIL
Show threadMichelle BarkerJul 12, 2023
@sophie @stavvers Oh I always assumed it meant “using for bad purposes”, like revenge 😮🤯 I may have misinterpreted a number of things throughout my life 😅
Show threadQuixoticgeekJul 13, 2023
@sophie @stavvers wait is this not commonly used ? Weird.
Show threadTess, Joint Chief of StiffJul 12, 2023
@stavvers you dont knoe astronomers do you?
Show threadTess, Joint Chief of StiffJul 12, 2023
@stavvers i think ive seen the term 'used in anger' a lot in astroohysics. Even for like, equations.
Like once you go past the formal beginnings youre using it in anger. Its a fun quirk to see.
Show threadhistoric drystone sheep dykeJul 12, 2023
@stavvers flipping the secret mode switch from Observe to Destroy
Show threadSusan LewisJul 12, 2023
@stavvers An angry birthday party at that! I've been to a few of those.
Show threadperfectly ordinary girlJul 12, 2023

@stavvers thats such a funny use of the idiom "in anger" lmao.

i usually hear it applied to like, a racecar or something, where the idea that you are using it "angrily" makes a little bit more sense. but it means using something "for real" as opposed to in a testing or development capacity.

Show threadTony WellsJul 12, 2023

@stavvers
Astronomers still upset it was named after a homophobic bureaucrat and not an astronomer or other space scientist.

Edit : Also, long hours, and having to queue to use it.

Show threadXymonJul 12, 2023
@stavvers they meant For not In. 😇
Show thread(moved to @[email protected] )Jul 12, 2023
@stavvers not just looking at stars: furious astronomers *glaring* at them