Another Angry WomanFeel like there's a typo here but I cannot for the life of me figure out what they *meant* to say
Sophie@stavvers do you mean “using in anger”? It’s as less common turn of phrase but it means “using for real”
@sophie I've literally never heard this construction in my life
gregopet
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Ben Aveling
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Angela Glansbury 🚽@gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie
Ok everyone, I am in a library with a decent reference section today.
"in anger" doesn't feature in Oxford shorter dictionary, Websters international, Oxford Phrase and Fable, Brewers Phrase and Fable (or Brewers Irish, London, or modern).
However it is in The Cassel Dictionary of Slang. Dated (1970+) and no origin.
I'll follow up that suggestion it may be military slang.
Rachel Greenham@stavvers @floppyplopper @gorfram @gregopet @sophie I grew up (in SE England) with that being relatively common parlance. Not a military family or setting btw; surprised to find it less common than i'd assumed. Have used it myself casually, sometimes in anger, occasionally in blind hissing fury, but most often in mild peevishness. (along with riffs on it like those.) confirm "proper" usage is like "for real", “in production", "no longer practicing/testing” etc.
@stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie
my instinct is that during the cold war at some point people became concerned about the uk's war readiness and so you might see in the times or hansard the phrase "XX Batallion of whatever has not fired a shot in anger [to distinguish it from test firing or training] for over 20 years, blah blah blah". This was possibly taken up as humorous but still military, as in "XX canteen hasn't fried an egg in over 20 years". to out of military context but still humorous "that idle sod hasn't done X in anger for over 20 years" to people losing the context and humour as in the report you posted today.
Just conjecture. I have heard "in anger" used before and just assumed meaning from context as you do with all language. I hadn't considered how funny it sounds.
Christopher Phin@floppyplopper @stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie Data point: I’ve made a conscious effort to _stop_ using this phrase as although it seems perfectly cromulent to me, it’s apparently 😅 not well known, and gets met with bafflement (or a perfectly justifiable assumption of aggression).
Passenger@floppyplopper @stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie
I heard a tale about where it comes from, which is probably not true.
According to the tale, it comes from the era of the battleship race in the late 19th / early 20th century, where European countries were spending fortunes building ever-larger fleets of ever-larger ships that they never actually used.
When one of these warships got scrapped, having gone obsolete from the floating-metal equivalent of Moore's Law, it was described as having "never fired a shot in anger."
ersatzmaus@floppyplopper @stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie I have seen and used this construction. The OED has it:
https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/7498?result=1&rskey=3HPgxN&
b. With serious or hostile intent; not as a practice or drill; in earnest.
1612 … neuer rose againe to draw sword in anger.
⋮
1885 … never commanded a regiment or fired a shot in anger.
1977 … He is the only one of us to have ridden a bicycle in anger, …
⋮
2014 … No other woman would drive a Formula 1 car in anger again until 1974.
Matthew@ersatzmaus @floppyplopper @stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie This is exactly it; I’ve always understood it with this meaning
Brooks Davis@floppyplopper @stavvers @gorfram @gregopet @sophie
Interesting that it’s origins are poorly documented.
I feel like it’s part of my largely American vocabulary, but I’ve worked my entire career at companies that work for the department of defense and have spent over a year working in Cambridge, UK over the last decade so it could be from either or both and I’ve lost track of where I picked it up.
I do think I’ve also read it in military SF... (see also “pear shaped”)
Hugo Mills@floppyplopper @gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie It's definitely part of my personal collection of idioms, exactly as used in the original quote up-thread.
(Mind you, so is "That's a different kettle of borscht", so YMMV...)
Knut Morå@floppyplopper
The bbc at least confirms with some experts that it is military: https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/radio/specials/1837_aae/page22.shtml but with no named reference:/
@gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie
The bbc at least confirms with some experts that it is military: https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/radio/specials/1837_aae/page22.shtml but with no named reference:/
@gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie
Eleanor Saitta@floppyplopper
I use it; I'm not sure where I picked it up from, but quite possibly US military folks
@gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie
I use it; I'm not sure where I picked it up from, but quite possibly US military folks
@gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie
Mike J👹🐀 🤘🏻@floppyplopper @gorfram @gregopet @stavvers @sophie I've heard it thousands of times, even used it myself, no idea where it comes from. This is one for @grantbarrett
John Young@gorfram I have used “in anger” in a computer context for a long time as a sort of nerdy what-ho Britishism: “I’ve prototyped graphQL, but haven’t yet used it in anger.”
I like your pool noodle example even better.
Carolyn M Jones