delta  Mar 2, 2023
its funny to me just how much of the external discourse about the fediverse revolves around people being completely unable to comprehend the concept of hosting something with no profit motive

so much of the commentary on "the viability of the fediverse" is written by people just so deep into capitalist brainrot they've completely lost touch of the idea that one might host something for a community, or just do something for people for the hell of it

people need to remember, the feeling that you're helping a community or that you've done good can also be an incentive, money is not the only incentive to do things as much as capitalist brainrot tries to tell you it is
Show threadgrinMar 3, 2023
@delta except those who aren't ignorant yet see serious problems with a highly segmented loose group of stricly guarded opinion bubbles.
I see viability problem not in hosting but in the non-existing "community".
Still, unless everyone get bored it will go on, even if only used by the amount of people equals to current gnutella users.
Show threadLisPi

@grin @delta The main reason for #Gnutella's decay is that it's profoundly insecure in its #clearnet-centric state.

An #I2P-only implementation would possibly be usable, but like most protocols not designed around pluggable transports as a first-class concern, it'd require significant deviation from the standard protocol & bespoke implementation.

Mar 3, 2023 at 4:56pmWeb
Show threadgrinMar 4, 2023

@lispi314 @delta Well it's been before security/encryption became chic, but I know no similar alternatives. People are using bittorrent+dht+pex I believe, which is not _that_ more secure.
It was gone IMO because it became segmented and slow.

Fedi is different though: it should be a common communication platform instead of segregated opinion bubbles, and I believe this is its demise as well. Broken by design.

Show threadLisPiMar 4, 2023

@grin @delta Oh no indeed, #clearnet torrenting is also completely insecure for anything which could be in any way compromising.

I'm inclined to agree to a point, it would be preferable to have something far closer to a #P2P setup. Unfortunately connectivity issues (end-to-end on my CGNAT? No! - average ISP) & privacy (network analysis & dragnet) on the clearnet make that a bit inconvenient.

At the #ActivityPub level, single-user instances aren't meaningfully different from multi-user.

Show threadLisPiMar 4, 2023

@grin @delta But unlike say... #SecureScuttlebutt there's no explicit affordance made for relays or TURN-like convenience whatsoever.

There's an assumption that end-to-end connectivity is possible over low-latency networks.

Show threadgrinMar 4, 2023

@lispi314 @delta
> aren't meaningfully different

Oh you believe so? Try to follow the "public stream" on a single-user server! 😟

Show threadLisPiMar 4, 2023

@grin @delta Well, discovery & bootstrapping is a problem yes (which #SSB handles via public posts in pubs).

On #Mastodon proper I've never actually used it much, I was more interested in the global federated feed the instance showed. That became less & less useful as the network has grown and it now streams by too quickly to really read anything.

Show threadgrinMar 4, 2023
@lispi314 @delta ah, you're missing the evil algorithm ranking it for you! 😃
Show threadLisPiMar 4, 2023

@grin @delta No need for that, #Gnus-style scoring & ordering is what I want.

You can probably find my other rants about Mastodon with that tag.

Show threadgrinMar 4, 2023
@lispi314 @delta and what do you get? 🙂
Show threadLisPiMar 4, 2023
@grin @delta At the moment I'm still stuck on Mastodon with chronologically ordered lists & a home timeline of whatever those I followed post or boost.
Show threadgrinMar 4, 2023
@lispi314 @delta and I dunno about you but for me it does not scale.
Show threadLisPiMar 4, 2023

@grin @delta Indeed. That's why I want the proper #Gnus-style scoring (https://www.gnus.org/manual/gnus_90.html#Scoring) with arbitrary #Lisp functions for determining individual posts' scores.

It can't really imagine better customization of prioritization that doesn't obfuscate details.

Gnus Manual: 7. Scoring

Gnus Manual: 7. Scoring

Show threadgrinMar 4, 2023
@lispi314 @delta I fear one would need spend more time to write scoring rules than reading the messages. 😉
And create an adaptive (throughout time) scoring requires, well, just the same as facebook uses. (Except they adaptively handle interactions.)
Show threadLisPiMar 4, 2023

@grin @delta Depending on the precision you want, you could very well make helper command functions so that from the general UI you can just type a key & change the priority of certain keywords, users, servers, media types, etc.

My ideal use-case involves pulling all new Activities in my inbox to my local machine once in a while & reading through that. Full #AsynchronousCommunication approach.

With most presumably having short automatic expiration unless I mark them for keeping.

Show threadParetoOptimalDevMar 15, 2023
@grin
Gnus already has adaptive scoring, I use it exclusively.
@lispi314 @delta
Show thread TropicalPitcherPlant Mar 4, 2023
@lispi314 @grin @delta https://cdrom.tokyo/main/public Fill in the registration form. Now. x)
Akkoma

Show threadLisPiMar 4, 2023

@ZalophuszJaponicus @grin @delta Very aesthetic, but does it the other problems mentioned?

It does at least address the incomplete/mostly-missing #C2S #ActivityPub implementation that #Mastodon suffers from...

Show thread TropicalPitcherPlant Mar 4, 2023
@lispi314 @grin @delta I haven’t read the previous messages, just saw that you were still using Mastodon and complaining about it. I don’t think it’s been implemented yet, but maybe it will be in the future, there are already many more features than on Mastodon.
Show threadgrinMar 4, 2023
@ZalophuszJaponicus @lispi314 @delta If I understand you correctly you wanted to convey the message "try Akkoma" but failed completely?
Show thread TropicalPitcherPlant Mar 4, 2023
@grin @lispi314 @delta Failed completely ?