RNRatched
Kevin RussellMastodon isnt just a life-raft, mastodon is how we win.
The next big thing is not corporate apps. Not corporate anything.
We arent running away from elon, we're replacing him.
Seedling@kevinrns co-ops and federations are the way forward
Paranoid FactoidA worthy goal. But our opponents have sovereign wealth and oligarchs on their side. We will have to organize. And build a secondary economy where they are refused entry and profit.
People doing business with each other. Not monopolies controlling markets and pricing.
We can start by not buying their apps.
I cant believe the amount of interaction there os on Mastodon, with just a handful of followers I began to get ten times as much interaction as on twitter.
(I can only assume even pre elon psychotic intetferrence tweet deliveries were manipulated)
I dont think humans have ever had an uncontrolled by money and power way to talk to each other.
I think this is going to be big.
Obviously, I agree this is a good thing. But organizing masses of people to boycott commercial social media will require careful thought and direct action. Especially on those platforms we wish to plant (rhetorical) dynamite and blow to pieces.
I don't this can happen as an organic and self organized transition. It will take military precision and planning.
Hey, why not both?
We are a self governing creature, an animal of accomodating freedom. #Organize!? Yep. Most importantly organize democracy and give democratic power away.
Possibly the most powerful lesson, for anyone, about how to do democracy is Sean Penn's 'Milk' rec'd
And, since mastodon, growing like spring wheat, is the first mass communication system not controlled by money or power in history, I'm pretty darn sure the organic might lead it.
I hope you're right.
I think I am. Well, and certainly to the point of let's go. Let's build our stuff. Let's stop building our jails.
SpaceLifeFormElmo is on top of this.
Void Abyss@ParanoidFactoid @kevinrns underrated comment
A Guy Named Brian (he/him)@kevinrns This. Very much this. 👍
Toni Aittoniemi@kevinrns Let it not end like email though.
Email used to be federated, but try to self-host your email server now, and all the messages you send will end up in spam of the tech giants, and you have absolutely no chance of getting out of there.
A cautionary tale, I hope we will have learned something if we are looking to truly win, not just win this battle.
Dont send email to tech giants? Is the problem with tech giants that they are owned by people whose goals are at odds with being of service?
There is no federated in your story, its ownership, its corporations. We've always hated corporations, for cause.
Cassandrich@kevinrns @gimulnautti You're not sending it to tech giants (except when you're doing a contract for them, which is funny when the emails go to spam). You're sending it to regular folks who have no access to email the way it should have been. Garbage ISPs, spammers, and extortionists riding the "anti-spam" cash car ruined it.
Evan HuntI recently decided to set up SMTP for a couple of domains, and yeah, it was a pretty long afternoon of peering at man pages and howto guides and fiddling with config files, but it really wasn't *that* hard, and it's working fine now. Once you've got the SPF and DKIM stuff set up, it keeps working.
I really think we need to get the word out there that it's not that hard. The more people are scared off by the complexity, the more email concentrates into a few silos.
Tony Novak@nuthaven @gimulnautti @kevinrns I did the same thing with stmp email for years on several web sites but had so many unexplained problems (that a small business operator doesn’t have time to diagnose). I gave up after too many emails problems.
Mike Spooner@nuthaven @gimulnautti @kevinrns Quite right. And unlike many things, the key SPF, DKIM, reverse-DNS requirements are *not* the fault of the huge players nor an attempt in and of themselves to corral email service.
Travis Nice@nuthaven @gimulnautti @kevinrns It’s not the complexity of the setup that’s the killer. I gave up self hosting recently because Microsoft would block entire subnets at a time. It took 3 days for them to reply with you don’t qualify to be whitelisted. Then it took 3 more days to appeal. Once they agree it takes 2 days before they accept your IP. That was as frequent as every 3 months. I can’t have my online store not send emails because Microsoft are lazy.
@travis_nice @nuthaven @kevinrns Yes. That was the point. As federated social media proceeds and big companies inevitably get involved, people could find their services most preferable, whether we like it or not.
This cautionary tale of how email became unfederated, because domination of oligopolies, should serve as an early warning of what could happen here as well. Success has a tendency of blinding people to what made it possible in the first place.
@gimulnautti @travis_nice @nuthaven
Mastodon isnt owned.
Not a doctorThis. My ex used to be part of a now-defunct #ISP and ran #SMTP until at least 2020 as a hobby. I heard lots of bitching about spam detection, etc.
While no one can own the #Fediverse, entities can own #Servers and create and market their #Instances
I'm #Old - I remember when #Amazon was not breaking even. Once they had enough #Prime #Subscribers, though...
Aaron@gimulnautti @kevinrns You absolutely can - but it's not just SMTP anymore. DKIM and DMARC in particular are critical.
And these things aren't just hoops to jump through, they benefit your domain as well. Routing anything not signed by DKIM into a quarantine made spam evaporate, without using filters.
What's needed is a more turnkey solution.
And these things aren't just hoops to jump through, they benefit your domain as well. Routing anything not signed by DKIM into a quarantine made spam evaporate, without using filters.
What's needed is a more turnkey solution.
Vic Guerrero@kevinrns well said…
Rob Burke@kevinrns I've created and deleted more twitter accounts than I care to admit over the years. The toxicity etc, but like following thought leaders I respected. Mastodon is certainly a better environment, nice "product" too.
Cykonot@kevinrns EVEN WITHOUT QUOTE TOOTS 😤
Chris Trottier@kevinrns Hey, thanks for the boost.
Lee 🌏@kevinrns
The Revolution will be on Mastodon
The Revolution will be on Mastodon
JohnW@kevinrns Very well said!
Mastodon has already proven that it can stand on its own. The Fediverse can only expand.
John@kevinrns Elon has his fan club, that's fine, they should be on Twitter. No reason for the rest of the population to be viewing his ads and generating OC for him though.
Tim Gent@kevinrns this would be nice if true, and I'll personally try to help. But I'm not confident. Even with Meta wasting billions on the Metaverse, the pull of investment towards monetisation is hard to fight.
And which sphere will better take advantage of the real game changer of AI? I suspect the real next Zuckerberg, Bezos or Jobs is already working on owning that.
And which sphere will better take advantage of the real game changer of AI? I suspect the real next Zuckerberg, Bezos or Jobs is already working on owning that.
seeteegee@kevinrns great, so what’s the funding model and plan to get billions of people on here? Also, how to deal with all the sociological and legal issues at that scale? Who’s going to work out the deal with Twitter that allows us to use one app that works with both systems during the transition period?
Brendan Jones@seeteegee @kevinrns the funding model is simple, you pay to be on your instance. It doesn’t even cost much - fosstodon has I believe 50K+ people on it and monthly costs are currently $2110 (source: https://hub.fosstodon.org/about/ ). Even if only 10K of those people pay, it’s 20c per person. That doesn’t pay the admins or moderators, but charge $2/month and their wages are covered. These are not unreasonable fees to ask people to pay.
@Brendanjones @kevinrns I'm not sure if this funding model is sustainable over the long term.
At what point do the admins decide that they need money to pay their rent/mortgage while dealing with all of the social issues on social media? Not to mention the possibility of large legal costs and costs associated with law enforcement compliance.
Besides, how does this money get spent strategically to position Mastodon as the Twitter alternative? I'm thinking advertising, outreach, marketing, deal making with other companies.
@kevinrns @seeteegee
> At what point do the admins decide that they need money to pay their rent/mortgage
That’s the entire point of paying them?
> Not to mention the possibility of large legal costs and costs associated with law enforcement compliance.
I don’t know enough about this to meaningfully discuss it. Someone else welcome to jump in.
@kevinrns @seeteegee
> how does this money get spent strategically to position Mastodon as the Twitter alternative? I'm thinking advertising, outreach, marketing, deal making with other companies.
I refute the framing of this question. Why does Mastodon need to be or do any of this? It’s growing magnificently already using zero of what you speak. And what deals does it need to make with other companies?
@kevinrns @Brendanjones From my perspective there are a great many people on Twitter with no plan to switch to Mastodon. Some will never ever switch due to the harassment they faced here and troubles getting set up. These are strategic problems that need addressing lest it become another fidonet. Sure, people still use it but barely anybody notices.
I use both because some communities chose to switch while most others are staying put. That friction is high, and if I need to budget my time I’m more likely to drop Mastodon because of the lesser content and engagement.
Also, the smug level here is quite high and annoying at times. The CW issues need to be addressed. This client I use still calls posts “toots.” It’s a real mess with no obvious roadmap.
@kevinrns @Brendanjones I think that one of the most salient comments I've heard on this topic is that Mastodon feels like a kind of exodus from the city core to the suburbs, with all the metaphorical imagery that it implies.
More like the reverse, this is people abandoning the Plantations and are looking for work, and all that that implies
@kevinrns @Brendanjones that wasn’t how one woman felt who wrote an article in a US newspaper about it. She was the victim of immediate descrimination here.
Scott Huff@Brendanjones @kevinrns @seeteegee
This is nothing more than one of probably a dozen social media platforms. It's been around a while and most users are happy with it the way it is. People can wander in and stay if they like our move on to Post, Counter Social, or Instagram.
Mastodon isn't the beginning or the end it's just more social media. And we don't have to do anything but use it or not!
Everybody have a great weekend, and try not to stress too hard.
@Brendanjones @kevinrns @seeteegee My favorite things about Mastodon… No algorithms… no advertisements! I get a little nervous when they start talking about making deals with big companies. What exactly does that mean?
@SEGarrettRN @Brendanjones @seeteegee
Mastodon isnt a company. Mastodon doesnt own instances of Mastodon. Mastodon at bottom is software written by volunteers and fans. Anyone can install it, open a server, begin to associate with others running Mastodon. Thats Mastodon.
@kevinrns @SEGarrettRN @seeteegee mastodon definitely is a company (Mastodon GmbH) and definitely owns instances of Mastodon (mastodon.social), and the code is not entirely written by volunteers. But the rest you wrote is correct.
@Brendanjones @SEGarrettRN @seeteegee
OK, thank you. Your help is appreciated. You have made your point. I will make the several clarifications.Then Ill explain Red Hat.
@kevinrns @SEGarrettRN @Brendanjones so, it’s just another fidonet then with better mobile apps? They love how anyone can install that software too, along with their benevolent dictator for life. The smugness level is high there too. That’s fidonet. Take it of leave it.
@SEGarrettRN @Brendanjones @kevinrns I value these things also, but there are costs. How do we get adequate funding so that we can properly staff this platform moving forward to a billion users with processes to deal with the social ills that will come with it? Otherwise we end up with a platform that unjustly discriminates, and bans people with no appeals process (no resources for that) as one woman has written about. Or, people get creative about monetization, such as ads. Or, the platform remains obscure.
@Brendanjones @kevinrns For example, Canada has laws regarding what we consider hate speech. RCMP will from time to time require compliance from server ops. There’s also issues associated with copyright and defamation.
So, are instance admins getting competitive compensation, benefits, etc.? Or is it just “gig work” where if they get sick and/or tired there’s another greater fool to step in? What happens when that ends and my instance goes dark?
Freedom based Democracies change, the nice part about democracies changing is freedom based democracy.
There is no arguing or remedy when microsoft cancels
MSN Messenger/Windows Live Messenger (1999-2012)
for example. But Mastodon is free software. Anyone can set up, you can set up an instance.
No more
@kevinrns @Brendanjones if there’s a viable funding model then somebody might buy one of those services knowing that they are able to keep things running, pay people to maintain it. What I’m concerned about here on Mastodon is whether there are actual viable funding models that don’t rely on people’s good will alone as fleeting as that will be. So, no, over the long term running a Mastodon is not actually easy for anyone to make it an enduring system at scale.
Yeah when a million people exta join, some computers will need upgrading too.
Possibly some federal grants too.
Kadin@seeteegee @kevinrns
> Who’s going to work out […] one app that works with both systems during the transition period?
Nobody, because Twitter won't ever agree to that. I'm not even sure that Elon's Twitter would comply if they had a court order to expose an API to third-party clients or something. He'd burn it down first.
The friction of leaving Twitter is basically the thing that's keeping them alive right now. That and celebrities/"newsmakers".
The_Linguist_LL@kevinrns I really want a good Youtube alternative that doesn't think making people buy crypto to watch free videos is a good idea, because 90% of them do that for some reason.
zbeckerThis isn't completely true. A lot of #FOSS projects required corporate backing to become the titans that they are. Just look at #linux and the #linuxFoundation.
That being said, corporate backed #foss is a huge step in the right direction, and there isn't any reason to dismiss this sentiment.
@zbecker The difference between backing, and investing, the 'not owning' part, is the saving factor of Mastodon, as the scaling fleet that is the liferaft.
IBM even more bought Red Hat, and yet linux is unchanged, or supported not compromised.
IBM even more bought Red Hat, and yet linux is unchanged, or supported not compromised.
Of course, but the backing is hugely influential is the decisions and direction of the product. The fact that it isn't ownership, like you said is why I called it huge step in the right direction.
That being said, the change to #systemd is due to #redhat (pre-IBM I should add), although the init system isn't part of #linux itself, as it is just the kernel.
These corporations are hugely influential on Linux, but ultimately #LinusTorvalds always has the final say.
The change some distros adopted, many, to systemd was due to many distros adopting systemd.
IBM does and cannot say.