John BullJan 5, 2023

Look. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Harry has a problem with his family then he needs to persuade the French to fund him, raise an army, invade and seize the crown.

What else was Brexit for, if not to restore traditional British approaches and values?

Show threadJohn Bull

QUESTION FOR THE EXPERTS: If the French back a Harry-led invasion and seizure of the crown, then he reasserts his right to the French throne, reverse invades and restores the French monarchy in a personal union with the British one...

...does that get us back into the EU?

Jan 5, 2023 at 10:02amWeb
Show threadJohn BullJan 5, 2023

So what I'm hearing is that the 'Reverse Harry' (not a sex move) will only work if, on seizing the French throne AFTER seizing the British one, he declares the restoration of the Angevin Empire.

That would count as a French successor state, and thus retain EU membership.

Hmmm...

Show threadThe BellmanJan 5, 2023
@garius I say: let's bring back the Plantagenets. It all went to poo after that Welsh usurper illegally seized the throne in 1485. The nation could benefit from the firm slap of the Plantagenet hand on it's flabby (metaphorical) bottom.
Show threadJohn O’DonnellJan 5, 2023
@thebellman @garius
Bring back Henry VI, or Richard II.
This country doesn’t have enough insanity at the moment.
Show thread5klp471Jan 5, 2023
@thebellman @garius
I never understood why Henry II never attacked Paris.
Show threadThe BellmanJan 5, 2023
@garius @5klp471 probably got lost on the way
Show threadSamuelJohnsonJan 5, 2023
@garius It's already agreed by treaty that NI will automatically rejoin the EU in the event of Irish reunification. The simplest solution is to extend the principle further by converting the UK to a UR (Republic) governed from Dublin or Belfast. 😋
Show threadMark MaguireJan 5, 2023
@samueljohnson @garius This. You know it makes sense.
Show threadPinkunz 🙃Jan 5, 2023

@samueljohnson @garius

Now that would be poetic irony. The isles would be united once again.

Show threadCharlie StrossJan 5, 2023

@garius Alternatively he could just move to Edinburgh, hoist the Saltire, issue a declaration that he's the heir to the SCOTTISH crown followed by revocation of the Act of Union (1707), and he's King of Scotland. At which point, reboot the Auld Alliance and offer HMNB Clyde as a base for the Force Océanique Stratégique to keep the English from invading.

(Bonus points: declare Berwick-upon-Tweed to be Scottish in perpetuity.)

/1

Show threadJohn BullJan 5, 2023
@cstross Nah. He's not stupid. That's just a good way to get murdered in a church by some B-List Scottish noble.
Show threadMartinJan 5, 2023

@garius @cstross

Only if one of his wife’s hard-as-nails friends doesn’t stick her arm through the door staples to hold it closed…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Douglas

Catherine Douglas - Wikipedia

Show threadPeter BrownJan 5, 2023
@garius @cstross we have sorted our issues with a knife crime over at the last 700 years, unlike certain English cities.
Show threadCharlie StrossJan 5, 2023

Minor problem is, support for monarchy is tenuous at best in Scotland.

Mitigating factor: Meghan hatred is mostly absent in Scotland, independence has majority support, and the SNP (who are very much the Ruling Party this decade) would probably pick up the ball and run with it.

He'd be King Henry I, unless he chose to take a traditional Scottish monarch's name (he could be Malcolm V or David III).

@garius

/2

Show threadRob SynnottJan 5, 2023
@cstross @garius Could go with a massively accelerated schedule of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_Saxe-Coburg-Gotha - simply become king for a few days, then run for PM in the newly-declared republic.
Simeon Saxe-Coburg-Gotha - Wikipedia

Show threadBlake C. StaceyJan 5, 2023
@cstross @garius This sounded completely plausible until you got to "Berwick-upon-Tweed", which is obviously a parody name, like calling a building "Hardwick Hall".
Show threadPaul CurrionJan 5, 2023
@bstacey @cstross @garius Perhaps we'd all be more comfortable if it reverted its name to "the barley farm on the border"?
Show threadBruno GirinJan 5, 2023
@garius mmm yeah but that would probably trigger revolts in Brittany, the Basque country and Burgundy at least.
Show threadnumber137Jan 5, 2023
afaia that would probably also entail a larger franco-allemanic-british unification with Harry's claim to the continental possessions of House Hanover
@garius @cstross
Show threadAlex S-VJan 5, 2023
@garius He could of course seize the French throne after the British one, release Britain as a vasal / hegemony thus retaining control of both - this should keep france and as a vasal Britain in the EU without the need to resurect old empires.... Bonus points as the French would LOVE having Britain as a vassal as well....
Show threadColinJan 5, 2023

@garius This sounds very much like you've connected the part of your brain that makes up CK3 run ideas with the part that deals with the existential horror of modern politics.

Also to make things more difficult you must do this as Norse Asatru and not start any wars.

Show threadJohn BullJan 5, 2023

@abstractcode tbh we should have flipped to "female rulers only"

then it would have gone to Anne.

Show threadColinJan 5, 2023
@garius Forced Partition would have been useful a few months ago.
Show threadarielsJan 5, 2023
@garius
How about going with something more modern? Tomorrow is January 6. Harry storms the Capitol and reverts the USA, or at least 13 Eastern states, to monarchic rule. He now invades and overruns Canada to the tune of The Star Spangled Banner.
After making French the only official language of Canada he gets French support and can invade England.
This approach is entirely risk-free: AFAICT there is controversy over whether it is even illegal to overthrow the USAian govenment on Jan 6.
Show threadPaul CurrionJan 5, 2023
@garius * (also a sex move, but one riddled with peril)
Show threadgrinJan 5, 2023
@garius you may be a little behind history though: France doesn't have a crown for a little while now.
But if most britons would marry a French citizen it would probably help the rejoining efforts.
Show threadPeter BrownJan 5, 2023

@garius I think if Harry restricted his attentions to Scotland, he would have no difficulty making a case for France and Scotland being under the same jurisdiction, since they are both subject to the treaty signed in 1295 between Scotland and France, as it provided for the future union of the two kingdoms.

Mind you, his first hurdle would be to be declared King of Scots!

Show threadToon Van de Putte 🍉Jan 6, 2023
@garius most sensible policy I've heard in a long time.
Show threadMartin HamiltonJan 6, 2023
@garius I'll just leave this here...
Show threadPeter HolloJan 5, 2023
@garius So... where do the guillotines fit in here?
Show threadPhilJan 5, 2023

@frogworth @garius the guillotines come in after all the previous shenanigans is done. Basically, Brexit becomes a long way around to becoming a republic.

1. Brexit
2. Harry does the above switcheroo, aided by the French
3. We become part of the EU
4. The French do what they did so well with their monarchy to their new king Harry (and the rest)
5. Royal properties go into a sovereign wealth fund
6. We learn how to really protest from the French, making Insulate Britain look like amateurs

Show threadParade du Grotesque 💀Jan 5, 2023

@frogworth @garius

Speaking as a Frenchman, this is PRECISELY why the good Dr Guillotin invented his little contraption.

We (French) went through several revolutions, 5 Republics and two Empires to get rid of that monarchist nonsense.

So, sorry, british people: you are still out of the EU. And Harry is out there in California or something.

Show threadSam Sneddon 🏳️‍⚧️Jan 5, 2023
@garius John what are you writing
Show threadSasyecat 😷Jan 5, 2023
@gsnedders @garius
The ultimate Fan Fiction.
Show threadNieuwenhuis DickJan 5, 2023
@garius check yout coffee machine, please. Something strange going on there…..
Show threadAlex S-VJan 5, 2023
@garius My suspicion is that it would lead to France being taken out of the EU, the taxing of grain followed by a new French revolution and the liberation of many aristoratic French heads..... He is a Brit afterall 😂
Show threadMarin LukanovićJan 5, 2023
@garius It seems like a proper British way of conducting affairs and resolving disputes. Go for it! If you could somehow fit conquering Croatia along the way (by either side), we would be very grateful. It seems we're much better off being occupied or otherwise ruled by foreigners - it gives us ample opportunities to bicker and moan and complain, while the country grows and people prosper.
Show threadJohn BullJan 5, 2023
@marin we're busy. ask the Venetians.
Show threadMarin LukanovićJan 5, 2023
@garius They can't at the moment, they're drowning. Ostensibly, we're all drowning, but hey, at least we have crypto!
Show threadLight makingJan 5, 2023
@garius which EU? EUIV perhaps?
Show threadThe Flying BunJan 5, 2023
@garius probably as an EU outer/overseas territory like some other French overseas possessions.
Show threadkatrinaJan 5, 2023
@flying_bun @garius As far as I'm aware, all of the French Overseas Départements are part of the EU. That wasn't the case for British Overseas Territories.
Show threadAlexandra LanesJan 5, 2023
@garius Boringly, I don't think so. If you managed to get a Union of states rather than just of crowns, there'd have to be international recognition of the new state of UKOGBANIAF as the successor state of the French Republic. I don't think you could wangle it as a bit like a much longer-in-the-tooth version of German reunification.
Show threadDaniel DurransJan 5, 2023
@garius More importantly, will I be able to buy fresh croissants within a 5 minute walk from my house at 7am every morning?
Show threadShinydanJan 5, 2023
@danieldurrans @garius *shrugs* bof.
Show threadmusk avoiderJan 5, 2023
@garius I've argued semi-seriously for a while that the UK and France should unite. Politically tricky but would have a lot of good outcomes.
Show threadRob SynnottJan 5, 2023
@yellsonpolitics @garius This was a not-totally-fringe Thing at one point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-British_Union
Franco-British Union - Wikipedia

Show threadJohn BullJan 5, 2023
@rsynnott @yellsonpolitics i really need to do a thread on the WW2 part of that at some point.
Show threadKeith_RJan 5, 2023

@yellsonpolitics @garius

Not least being that it would probably give Reform voters a seizure.

So yeah - the sooner the better!

Show threadPatrickleeJan 5, 2023
@garius possibly Denmark instead of France. This has precedence.
Show threadRob SynnottJan 5, 2023
@garius You'd probably need France to annex the UK; hard to imagine personal union being sufficient.
Show threadGrumpy Grimnir Jan 5, 2023

@garius The "United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, and the bit we don't talk about"?

Probably not if it's that way. But the Angevin Empire might work.

Show threadmauvedeityJan 5, 2023
@garius It’s got to be worth a try.
Show threadJoão Craveiro (“Cravvie”)Jan 5, 2023
@garius not if Johnny English is around.
Show thread🎠Bo AbrahamsenJan 5, 2023
@garius it will be a better bet than Keir Starmer 😉
Show threadAlonJan 5, 2023
@garius The UK is in a personal union with a large albeit dwindling number of other realms, none of which was ever in the EU.
Show threadfelfaceJan 5, 2023
@garius this would also possibly trigger NATO article 5 but for two countries both within NATO
Show threadKadinJan 6, 2023

@felface @garius Yes, that part is awkward, but since France isn't part of the Strategic Planning Group and Britain is, I'd put my money on the latter coming out ahead.

Really though, it all depends on who the Germans decide to back.