RealJBJan 2, 2023
Dylan Beattie

Thought Leaders: "Programming will be obsolete within 5 years. All business software will be generated by AIs"

Actual Businesses: "actually we're mainly still on-premise, running on Windows Server 2003 and VBScript ASP, but our two-year plan to migrate everything into a cloud kicked off in 2015 and we're making steady progress."

Jan 2, 2023 at 12:42pmWeb
Show threadMirrors And StuffJan 2, 2023

@dylanbeattie "no one will be coding in C in 2023."

I'd laugh but I'm also going to cry a bit.

Show threadpeterJan 2, 2023
@mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie When was this announced? I haven't yet but I'm going back tomorrow...
Show threadPapa Porkey (He/Him)Jan 2, 2023
@mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie It's really funny that you mention this. I'm a student applying for internships and had one company call back asking if I knew Fortran. If it exists, it will never die.
Show threadsmidbotJan 2, 2023
@mirrorsandstuff @papaPorkey @dylanbeattie You can make an absolute killing dealing in languages on Big Bank life support like Q or Fortran
Show threadPapa Porkey (He/Him)Jan 2, 2023
@smidbot @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie "We spent half of our yearly revenue on a shiny new IBM in 1959. I'll be god damned if we stop using it now."
Show threadTodd KnarrJan 3, 2023
@papaPorkey @smidbot @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie It's probably running on modern hardware. The reason ancient code still runs is usually it's got so many decades of business logic baked in and so much documentation and tribal knowledge has been lost that replacing or reverse-engineering it has become impossible.
Show threadGorgeous na Shock!Jan 3, 2023
@tknarr @papaPorkey @smidbot @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie So much of my career has been coming up with ways to run very very old software on very very new hardware. 😩
Show threadKennethMar 6, 2023

@papaPorkey @smidbot @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie

"I carried those bytes with my own two hands..."

Show threadgnarlygeekJan 2, 2023
@papaPorkey @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie FORTRAN and COBOL will never die, unfortunately. This is from someone that learned both as my first 2 programming languages. There's been over a dozen more in 50 years.😎
Show threadPCJan 2, 2023
@papaPorkey @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie Hey, #FORTRAN was my first #ComputerLanguage.
Show threadCraig NewmarkJan 2, 2023

@PChoate @papaPorkey @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie

FORTRAN II for me in 1969, IBM 1620.

Punch cards...

Show threadPCJan 2, 2023
@craignewmark @papaPorkey @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie I was as Cal Poly about 10 years after that. Punched out an ANOVA model on Hollerith cards.
Show threadRick RaeJan 3, 2023

@PChoate
Ditto. WATFOR via punch cards and RJE terminal.

The concept was so new in my area the class wasn't even referred to as programming. It was... "Technical Math".
@papaPorkey @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie

Show threadJeff Morris ZAJan 2, 2023
@papaPorkey @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie
Most of my code was in #Fortran IV
Show thread This is Mur Jan 2, 2023

@papaPorkey
Are you applying the internship at a weather station?

@mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie

Show threadPierce Nichols, Yak BarberJan 2, 2023
@papaPorkey @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie AFAICT, Algol-68 is well and truly dead.
Show threadBonkersJan 3, 2023

@papaPorkey @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie

If you're good in software development in general, Fortran will be easy for you to learn. Just try not to let it influence your software design style ;)

Show threadFeralRobotsJan 3, 2023
@papaPorkey @mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie
I have my current job because for a while in 1999 I maintained a message board system written in ColdFusion.
Show threadUrsidinoj/The BjornsdottirsJan 2, 2023
@mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie Let's go code C in the year of our Unix 53
Show threadUrs.GubserJan 2, 2023
@mirrorsandstuff @dylanbeattie I'm actually thinking of coding in C as my retirement career - C (and other languages) will be with us for a long time!
Show threadChris MahanJan 2, 2023

@dylanbeattie but at least we got off Excel 5.0 last year and everything is running in office 365, even if some of the macros were written by some guy who died of covid in 2020.

AI-ready!

Show threadThe BellmanJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie “also, our entire financial process relies on this excel spreadsheet that John built back before Y2K but nobody is sure how it works”
Show threadLocalJoost 🥽Jan 2, 2023
@thebellman @dylanbeattie "And by the way, John retired in 2005 and died in 2012"
Show threadTrevor - The Vitruvian MeepleJan 2, 2023
@thebellman @dylanbeattie "Where's John?"
"Oh, he left, I think it was about 5 years ago. I don't know, I wasn't here yet"
"Did he train anyone?"
"Uh... I think her name's Cheryl."
"Ok, where's Cheryl?"
"She was downsized... 2 years ago."
"Downsized?"
"Yeah. I heard it was brutal. No advance notice or anything."
"..."
"..."
"..."
"... What's that look for?"
Show threadDylan BeattieJan 2, 2023

@vitruvianmeeple @thebellman

TIRED: using ChatGPT to generate bespoke software from scratch

WIRED: training ML models to analyse business processes modelled in 47-sheet Excel files and explain how the hell they actually work.

Show threadTrevor - The Vitruvian MeepleJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie @thebellman
Show threadHLGEMJan 4, 2023
@thebellman @dylanbeattie And it has had some major errors in the formulas for that entire time.
Show threadHuydermanJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie I really can't wait to see the new and exciting bugs we'll see in the coming years as people try to use AI generated code without having an actual programmer review it. And I'm pretty positive to generative AIs as a productivity tool.
Show threadReed MidekeJan 2, 2023
@huyderman @dylanbeattie Was thinking about this the other day, these models are great a producing convincing looking output without any knowledge of correctness… which seems like a perfect recipe for a certain class of hell bug
Show threadminusavenueJan 3, 2023
@huyderman @dylanbeattie we have that now - it's called "copypasta from Stack Overflow" ;)
Show threadTechSquidTVJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie I'd be the MOST concerned for people writing old VB Script getting replaced by AI.
Show threadMichael WinibergJan 2, 2023

@dylanbeattie

This, exactly this!

(I'm working on software that started out as MS Access VBA over 20 years ago and which is still in active development, but with SQL Server replicated back-end!)

Show threadEnema CowboyJan 2, 2023

@mfwiniberg @dylanbeattie

This seems to be a common tragedy.

Show threadChris Funderburg 🐝Jan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie "Thought Leaders" in this case being people who want to sell us something rather than actual engineers.
Show threadVermyndaxJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie Many of those actual businesses: "Can you explain cloud to me one more time?"
Show threadEnema CowboyJan 2, 2023

@vermyndax @dylanbeattie

My Team: Could you please fix the networking to our development server environment so we can support our customer?

Company: Better yet, you will move your environment onto the cloud!

Team: ooookayy.....

Company: Oh yeah, you can't run all the virtual machines that you were before, and all the cloud servers automatically shut down at 9pm to save money.

Show threadVermyndaxJan 2, 2023
@Enema_Cowboy @dylanbeattie Why is your team working at 9pm?
Show threadEnema CowboyJan 2, 2023

@vermyndax @dylanbeattie

Usually we are not, unless we need to coordinate something with offshore teams.

The problem with them shutting down at night is that we must manually restart them in the morning. It also causes issues diagnosing issues that occur after the system has been up for extended periods, as it is in the production environment.

Show threadVermyndaxJan 2, 2023
@Enema_Cowboy @dylanbeattie Any automation that shuts down instances should allow for some easy automation to start them back up.
Show threadEnema CowboyJan 2, 2023
@vermyndax
That would be nice. But that's unlikely to happen when annual software license renewal routinely exceeds 13 months.
@dylanbeattie
Show threadJoeMcconJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie Contrarian thinkers: "Business that bets on AI will be bankrupt in two years."
Show threadOpenDNA⚙️Jan 2, 2023
@JoeMcConn @dylanbeattie The future is blockchain.
Show threadlazy_cometJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie truest words
Show threadBlubJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie I had to learn Cobol five years ago in order to work in the largest bank of my country. I’d like to see an AI try and maintain this nightmare.
Show threadEnema CowboyJan 2, 2023

@Blub @dylanbeattie

I want to see how AI deals with acronyms and features that nobody remembers, and numerous gross violations of the Principle of Least Astonishment.

Show threadAndyD10Jan 2, 2023
@Blub @dylanbeattie our last COBOL programmer just finished their contract late last year. I suddenly feel like I work in a bleeding edge company.
Show threadPeeble streamer on Doop 🟥🟨Jan 2, 2023
@Blub @dylanbeattie I did COBOL as part of a course 30 years ago, I recently looked it up to remind myself, and saw someone quoted as saying, what if basic but you hated ppl.
Show threadNickJan 3, 2023

@Blub @dylanbeattie
I kept scrolling to find the bankers. Yep, COBOL. Same code from the ‘80s held together by paper clips and 50 year old grumpy people.

Large mortgage servicer? GUI interface over green screen. When the interface rolled out 10 years ago, the company charged extra for the “enhancement.”

After last week, I’m eager/scared to see Southwest’s code.

Show threadGlennJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie Am I the only one left alive who can remember the warnings of how compilers would reduce the need for programmers because it was so much easier than assembly? Silly right? A compiler is a tool that lets a programmer do more. Same thing here.
Show threadEnema CowboyJan 2, 2023

@glennsills @dylanbeattie

I'm not quite that old. 😆

Show threadJónJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie COBOL programmers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2JTPalv_s
Too Much Money - Tallahassee (Woody Harrelson) - Zombieland

YouTube
Show threadKewlCatJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie In order for the AI to output code that works exactly as intended (nothing less, nothing more), the person generating the prompts will need to know the correct language … #ohWait
Show threadShouty personJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie We built this slick new front end for clients to use. They enter their payment details here … and then someone in ops copies and paste them into the real system over here.
Show threadCurt OlsonJan 2, 2023

@dylanbeattie @h_thoreson

Every time this subject comes up, it reminds me of a long ago job interview (didn't get the job) where the interviewer totally shot down my answer and kind of got mad at me for being so naive.
He asked something about computer security in this case. I said something about it being a never ending battle. He snapped back that businesses need to have all this stuff working and they can't tolerate these sorts of snafu's, so it would all be resolved in under 6 months.

So now I think business will get this all sorted out and find the optimal and bug free path going forward. They just can't survive too many more decades sluffing along and muddling through with buggy human generated code! AI for the win!

Show threadhannahJan 2, 2023
@clolsonus @dylanbeattie In the real world I've worked at at least one place where people were still using paper backups and print records for tons of stuff. Forget ~moving to the cloud~ or AI. Their source of truth was basically binder on somebody's desk or Iron Mountain storage
Show threadMattJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie It's going to be interesting, with AI that's been trained on code full of security issues.
Show threadRabbitJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie accurate
Show threadRetired AggieJan 2, 2023
@dylanbeattie TRUTH!
Show threadRyusuiJan 2, 2023

@dylanbeattie Eager Elonite: "We've already fired all of our software development staff. All our code is written by ChatGPT, fed prompts by unpaid interns."

User: "The password recovery form consists of a single dropdown with the options 'Male,' 'Dollars (US),' and 'Kumquat.'"

Eager Elonite: "Well, CLEARLY the AI knows something you don't!"