smathermatherNov 23, 2022
Lauren Weinstein

Both #Google and #Apple will soon be facing an uncomfortable and crucial inflection point, brought about by Elon's #Twitter.

The terms of service for both firms' mobile app stores prohibit hate speech and a variety of other kinds of toxic speech that are rapidly becoming the norm on Twitter under Musk, and that (judging from his continuing statements) could soon become the majority of posts on the platform.

While it is arguable how well both Apple and Google have handled apps up to now that catered to the far right end of the political spectrum from day one, Twitter is a different case, since it has had (at least up to now) a much broader spectrum of users who by and large are not as tolerant of the kinds of speech on which most users of those other platforms thrive. The same can be said of most advertisers, many of whom have already paused their Twitter ad buys out of concerns regarding Musk's behavior and actions. Yet another factor is EU regulations that specifically prohibit much of the kinds of speech that Musk is now gleefully inviting back onto the platform.

The situation is complicated by many firms and municipalities using Twitter for important announcements, but as Twitter skews toward catering to fascism these entities would be wise to plan for other communications channels as soon as possible.

More imminently, it is likely that both Google and Apple, along with various of Twitter's infrastructure providers (some of whom, reportedly, haven't been paid for bills that preceded Elon's coronation), will be under pressure to reassess their participation in an increasingly toxic Twitter ecosystem. In the cases of Apple and Google, the calls for them to enforce their Terms of Service as written can only be ignored at the firms' own peril over time.

This will be an ethical test on a grand scale. We will all be watching. -L

Nov 23, 2022 at 9:18pmWeb
Show threadnadin brzezinskiNov 23, 2022
@lauren Parler is the example to watch. However, I hope municipalities start moving, because it’s coming
Show threadKennethNov 23, 2022
@lauren There's also the "Click to Share" imprimatur. Haven't seen the Mastadon yet!
Show threadLilian EdwardsNov 23, 2022

@lauren

👆

Show threadLilian EdwardsNov 23, 2022
@lauren should I do a poll?
Up to their neck
20.8%
Up to their arsehole
50.8%
Depends what DSA enforcement is looking like
23.1%
Not at all they will behave with impeccable ethics
5.4%
Poll ended at .
Show threadMade In CanadaNov 24, 2022
@lilianedwards @lauren the unfortunate part of the Musk Twitter debacle is that once he populates the site with enough far right users all he has to do to make up the money he lost is to ask for their money to support the site. It's amazing how much money the nastiest people can raise just by asking their folk to help them stay nasty.
Show threadChrisNov 24, 2022
@rdel @lilianedwards @lauren I can see this & I think/hope that means Twitter ends up as the social equivalent of MyPillow. Decent business? Sure. But the global reach & influence of Twitter declines as only the right is willing to associate with it. That traps them in a sustainable but not growing business. Not sure Musk's ego or investors are going to go for that.
Show threadlauowolfNov 24, 2022
@rdel But he wants outside money, advertisers
And, to be frank, he wants to abuse us
Can't do that if we are gone
Show threadRerunderwearNov 24, 2022
@lilianedwards @lauren Dang it, voted for wrong thing 😩 Couldn’t read that last one & clicked on it to expand lol
Show threadLilian EdwardsNov 26, 2022
@lauren surprisingly optimistic result frankly!
Show threadscottmaceNov 23, 2022
@lauren One wonders how Truth Social has stayed in the good graces of the app stores.
Show threadMorfyddNov 23, 2022
@scottmace @lauren IIRC TS was only approved for Google Play a couple of weeks ago. I don’t quite understand how they finally got approved, but the fans at r/DWAC_Stock were very excited.
Show threadPhil LandmeierNov 23, 2022

@lauren I'm sure teams from Google and Apple are meeting quietly, to discuss this very thing. What a freakin' headache.

"And we thought we had problems before..."

Show threaderamneNov 23, 2022

@lauren

"prohibit hate speech and a variety of other kinds of toxic speech that are rapidly becoming the norm on Twitter under Musk"

well, that kinda already was the norm on Twitter since long before Elon took over, unfortunately

maybe it'll be a bit worse now though

Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 23, 2022
@eramne It is already MUCH worse.
Show threadLady Homealot 🖖 not going backNov 23, 2022
@lauren Just a reminder that individuals can report apps in the iOS App Store if you have or had the Twitter app, for example. I assume the same is true of the Google Play store.
Show threadZorro Notorious MEB 😡Nov 23, 2022

@lauren

I've watched this MuskmElon / Twitter saga play out since he started making stock purchases. And I've tried and failed the entire time to come up with an explanation that involves incompetence and doesn't involve malice / chicanery.

It's been a hostile takeover from day one, and the resulting carnage is not a surprise to me. I don't know what he plans to do next but I'm guessing it's not something that will give me confidence that Twitter is a viable business.

Show threadZorro Notorious MEB 😡Nov 23, 2022

@lauren

Rest assured that Apple and Google, staffed with the best attorneys and accountants there are, will make a business decision that optimizes their shareholder value. MuskmElon has the "luxury" of being Twitter's only shareholder, although there are bondholders.

Show threadTechronic9876Nov 23, 2022

@AlgoCompSynth @lauren any action google or apple takes will be used by musk as evidence that he’s being persecuted, and used to grow his fanatical user base

If maga/qanon are growing a violent army of real people, musk is using the same tactics to grow an army of online fighters

Show threadZorro Notorious MEB 😡Nov 24, 2022
@Techronic9876 @lauren Google and Apple have the muscle to deal with "a violent army of online fighters". So does the US Government. I don't know what MuskmElon's reasons are for doing what he's doing - most likely it's for personal financial gain. There will undoubtedly be whistleblowers.
Show threadWalden Wilde Nov 23, 2022
@lauren Very good points! I feel like up until recently Twitter had a sort of "plausible deniability" that their user base was so huge and diverse and they at least appeared or made the motions that they were trying to maintain things. MElon is tossing all out that window and is skewing so far to the alt-right, it's gonna be harder for Apple/Google/advertisers to just look the other way. At least I hope so. *fingers crossed*
Show threadBigBadBoxBookNov 23, 2022

@lauren

AMAZING that he thinks he can #BlusterPost through the crisis while the house burns down. Most of these attendant crises weren't foreseeable, but what good thing was going to happen with any of his sabotages?

I want to say he's purposely tanking it, but I honestly think his ego just won't allow him even to cut his losses ($100B across his businesses as of yesterday, says Bloomberg). Next stop I bet, is a cascading series of failures that leave birdland as Gab Jr.

#ElonsFolly

Show threadThorstenNov 23, 2022

@lauren

I wouldn't shed a tear for the bird-app, but I'd think e.g. Reddit has it's share of racism as well, and while I didn't see it yet on Mastodon, it will be difficult to avoid on app-level since, afaik, there is no way to prevent servers accepting of that type of content.

Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 23, 2022
@th0r5t3n These are the kinds of issues that will determine Mastodon's ability to scale significantly going forward. They may prove to be intractable. But Mastodon is playing a very important role now in any case.
Show threadAmit ZinmanNov 23, 2022
@lauren https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVj4kZF-Fgk
Elon Musk Is An Idiot (and so are Zuck and SBF)

YouTube
Show threadKathy E. Gill 🇺🇦Nov 24, 2022
@lauren
THIS>
“The situation is complicated by many firms and municipalities using #Twitter for important announcements….”
Twitter-the-infrastructure has become a critical part of comms related to emergencies and disasters in the US (#SanDiegoFire and @chrismessina kickstarted it).
It was an important #PublicService channel during the scary “It’s not a drill” alert in Hawaii.
I don’t Mastodon is a good substitute as structured.
Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@kegill @chrismessina Thing is, they'd better start finding alternatives, because depending on Twitter in the long run -- or to reach the audience they really want, are rapidly diminishing bets.
Show threadZorro Notorious MEB 😡Nov 24, 2022

@lauren @kegill @chrismessina

LinkedIn, Mastodon, YouTube and Instagram are poised to take up the slack. Sadly, I think TikTok has a better reach but nobody knows how safe it is.

Show threadMeurglys IIINov 24, 2022

@kegill @lauren @chrismessina

I think this could fit into Mastodon easily enough. I imagine one or more instances that are dedicated to law enforcement, emergency services, etc. and which verify all their accounts. Then add a mechanism to prioritize messages from such instances to ensure they arrive as quickly and reliably as possible.

Show threadLilith Ferreyra-CarrollNov 24, 2022
@lauren aye, and the site could very well be blocked by the EU
Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@Lilith I keep bringing up the EU and a lot of people just say Elon will ignore them. Let's see how that works out.
Show threadMagical CatNov 24, 2022
@lauren Google have other way to push on Twitter - they can deplatform Twitter from Google Cloud Platform, Twitter uses for events processing and analitics.
///The situation is complicated by many firms and municipalities using Twitter for important announcements///
ActivityPub need own federated blue ticks system easy to deploy, like new property `verification` on account describing who and how verified account, in machine readable form of signatures and as link of readable page about account.
Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@koteisaev Yes, if Musk continues this course the pressure on Twitter's infrastructure providers will grow very quickly.
Show threadTeddyNov 24, 2022
@lauren They won’t do anything. Apple already went through enough legal battles with Epic Games after they removed Fortnite from the App Store for an even clearer violation of their terms of service by accepting payment not through Apples payment system.
I’m the eyes of the law “hate speech” is such a vague term and for Apple to remove the app from the App Store would launch such a large scale lawsuit where it would cost Apple far too much.
Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@uhteddy The payment systems fight was orthogonal to the fusion bomb size mess that Twitter is going to cause. Wait and see.
Show threadChris Alemany 🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 🌱Nov 24, 2022
@lauren Agree to all this. My question however is how the hell does Facebook remain on the App Store if Twitter gets booted off for ‘fomenting hate speech’ or some such.
Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@chrisale Facebook does have a fairly robust moderation system, despite its many faults.
Show threadJerry LermanNov 24, 2022
@lauren How were you able to post more than 500 characters?
Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@Jerry I increased the limit in the server!
Show threadPoeticLicenseDKNov 24, 2022
@lauren
As rational people & advertisers flee the Tweetopalypse, the proportion of hate speech will inevitably rise. There is no way Titter won't be in violation og Google's and Apple's TOS. Elon's current model, unsustainable.
Show threadDicksNov 24, 2022
@lauren Google and Apple pay Twitter, not the other way around. You people are so obsessed with trying to get Twitter to fail when it's doing fine lol.
Show threadc_lilley_dsNov 24, 2022
@lauren
Honestly, it seems like an easy decision. Its the right business move to try to limit hate speech. When users and advertisers leave for smaller newer companies, this creates the exact type of scenario for a company that did not exist five years ago to eat them in 20.
Show threadRomaineNov 24, 2022
@lauren it is an interesting angle but Twitter will weasel its way to compliance.
Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@romaine We shall see in the fullness of time what transpires. There is no real precedent for what's happening to Twitter now, so predictions are always problematic.
Show threadStan FletcherNov 24, 2022
@lauren The day is coming when decision to ban will be made. #Apple has stricter terms of service so I’d expect them to be first.
Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@IrwinFletcher0 Apple approved Truth Social long before Google. So Apple's hate speech calculations are not always so clear.
Show threadJonathan-FL 🇺🇸🇺🇦🇵🇸⚛️💙Nov 24, 2022
@lauren @IrwinFletcher0 - The reason is technical rather than policy. Truth Social's development team completed their iPhone app long before they completed their Android app.
Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@AmerLiberal @IrwinFletcher0 The iPhone app came first but TS was loudly and publicly complaining that Google hadn't approved the Android app when it was finished, specifically because Google was unsatisfied with TS' lack of effective moderation.
Show threadBrettNov 24, 2022
@lauren If he goes ahead with his paywalled porn plans they won't have a choice but to remove the apps from their app stores. Same reason why Tumblr pulled their adult content and why OnlyFans doesn't have apps.
Show threaddougNov 24, 2022

@lauren Thanks, interesting stuff.

Apple will do just fine without Twitter, hardly a blip. But Twitter needs Apple desperately.

I suppose an early sign is that Apple still has an account on Twitter. Hard to imagine they could keep an account there while at the same time kicking them out of the App Store.

Show threadCalistaNov 24, 2022
@lauren And I will be watching carefully. From what I've seen, I really would love to see the Apple and Google ban Twitter from the apps bc of what Musk is doing. Musk is so thinned skin and I am currently suspended from Twitter for no valid reason while the ugly rhetoric on the right has amped up
#Apple #Google #PlayStore #ElonMusk #CurtLoder #DataBreach #HateSpeech #BanTwitter
Show threadSei KayNov 24, 2022
@lauren I know Microsoft is sorta irrelevant but twitter is on their PC app store too.
Show threadLeon EsquireNov 24, 2022
@lauren yooooo i been noticing apple slowly distancing themselves. You think its going to happen?
Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@soyesquire The further Elon pushes this, the higher the probability goes.
Show threadEdwardNov 24, 2022
@lauren did you get the bike to make up for the women’s name? Don’t be shy now this is a safe place to share. 😁
Show threadSimonellaNov 24, 2022

@lauren
I do imagine that Google and Apple are seeing what is happening on Twitter and laying out their options. I can see that such a decision would be made by those near the very top.

I find that every time I go on Twitter, it is just a cesspool of conservative jerks posting nonsense. Maybe it's my own fault for following well-known people that spew out garbage.

Show threadCJ the Awkward LeftyNov 24, 2022
@lauren I'm wondering how long it will be before the app just gets banned in the EU, or at least in Germany.
Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@awkwardlefty_cj Well, it's not just the app. EU is bringing into force quite comprehensive laws against hate speech, disinformation, and more that will impact large sites like Twitter. It does not seem practical for Twitter to simply refuse to interact with EU users.
Show threadFlorisNov 24, 2022
@lauren really how is twitter catering to fascism
Show threadRev. Voice, James HNov 24, 2022

@lauren I don't really imagine they are having a hard time with it. Not because it isn't there.. it is, obviously - but because there is a big window of gray area allotted social media.

Facebook has white supremacists, racists, homophobes, red pillers, conspiracy nuts. I'm sure its out there on Tiktok, Snapchat, Instagram, Tumblr, Reddit, etc.

I can get Parler and Truth on my Android.. I can't see them stopping Twitter, or even feeling the need to make a statement about it.

Show threadLauren WeinsteinNov 24, 2022
@revvoice I believe you'll find the situation will be different this time for a variety of reasons. Watch and see.