Aisteach 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🏴‍☠️Nov 14, 2022
Cassana
OK #Mastodon. I've seen several toots on #accessibility for #screenreader users, however, I've not seen one from a screenreader user (as far as I know). I've used ZoomText, Outspoken, JAWS (AKA JFW), Supernova, NVDA (Windows), and VoiceOver (both on Macs and iPhone). I don't have experience with Windows Narrator or TalkBack. I would like to rectify and clarify a few small things.
First off, any awareness of accessibility issues, and endeavours to make things more accessible is great. Keep going!
But…
Blind/low-vision people have been using the internet as long as everyone else. We had to become used to the way people share things, and find workarounds or tell developers what we needed; this latter one has been the main drive to get us here and now. Over the past decade, screen readers have improved dramatically, including more tools, languages, and customisability. However, the basics were already firmly in place around 2000. Sadly, screen readers cost a lot of money at that time. Now, many are free; truly the biggest triumph for accessibility IMHO.
So, what you can do to help screen readers help their users is three simple things.
1. Write well: use punctuation, and avoid things like random capitalisation or * halfway through words.
2. Image description: screen readers with image recognition built-in will only provide a very short description, like: a plant, a painting, a person wearing a hat, etc. It can also deal with text included in the image, as long as the text isn't too creatively presented. So, by all means, go absolutely nuts with detail.
3. Hashtags: this is the most commonly boosted topic I've seen here, so #ThisIsWhatAnAccessibleHashtagLooksLike. The capitalisation ensures it's read correctly, and for some long hashtags without caps, I've known screen readers to give up and just start spelling the whole damn thing out, which is slow and painful.
That's really all. Thanks for reading! 😘
Nov 13, 2022 at 1:38pmWeb
Show threadCassanaNov 13, 2022
Holy crap, Mastodon! Thanks all for the continuous favourites and boosts on this. 💚
You're all awesome!
Show threadPMscenarios Nov 14, 2022
@Cassana I was so happy to see a post from a screen reader user. It's invaluable to get that first hand feedback
Show threadMsVDiamondNov 13, 2022
@Cassana except that for anyone using a screen reader, especially voiceover, if I click on someone's post in my feed, I can't actually read the text. I can read part of it in the feed itself if there is no content warning, but if I want to go in to the post, I can no longer get voiceover to read the text. Wasn't a problem when I first signed up.
Show threadGeraldo Fernández, MLIS (OLD)Nov 13, 2022
@Cassana Thanks for this! Is using paired slashes or asterisks for emphasis as a replacement for italics particularly annoying or disruptive? I really like italicizing things, but since most social media doesn't support markdown or HTML formatting, this has been my approach, but I'd like to be #accesibility minded and minimally frustrating for #ScreenReader users.
Show threadCassanaNov 14, 2022
@sylvia_killy I love using MarkDown myself, but more for editing purposes as it makes it easy to see what bit of the text does what. So, I personally have no problems with **using asterisks for emphasis**. Depending on screen reader verbosity settings, slashes may not be read out, asterisks usually are.
Show threadBill CriswellNov 13, 2022
@mcneely I have no idea if I'm replying to this correctly but wanted to share this with you since I saw this boosted, good stuff starts at like 2:30: https://youtu.be/2pCv-NJI1JY
"Designing and Coding for Low Vision" featuring Mallory van Achterberg

YouTube
Show threadLeaLeaLeaNov 13, 2022
@Cassana Great post. As someone who sometimes posts art, how detailed do you think is detailed enough? What are the most important things you would like to have described? And are there words that should be avoided? Or do you have any pointers or recources I could check out to improve the experience for people?
Show threadSarah, The Website TherapistNov 13, 2022
@LeaLeaLea @Cassana my main thought on detail is to begin with broad information that tells a person whether it’s a picture of interest to them. Once they know if they want more information, go nuts. For example, “my dog in a funny pose. Her legs are crossed and she’s sitting upright and she’s a cattle dog”
Show threadSarah, The Website TherapistNov 14, 2022
@LeaLeaLea @Cassana The first sentence tells someone waiting for the words to be read out, whether they want to skip to the next toot.
Show threadCassanaNov 14, 2022
@LeaLeaLea Generally, I'd say broad strokes first, just to make it clear what the image is of. Then go into detail. Of course, Taylor it to thee audience, so if you know there's someone who relies on descriptions to join in the conversation, then you're good. If you aren't sure people are using the description, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with just doing the broad outline, then stating your willing to describe it in more depth; leaving the choice to them to ask.
As for words, use whatever.
Show threadAnitaH2Nov 13, 2022
@Cassana
Thanks for teaching us.
Sorry for every asterix I have used for my swearing.
As a plants nerd, I usually give the plant name in the post.
Should I also give a description on foliage, flower size and so on, or will it be kinda rude to assume people do not know the type?
Show threadCassanaNov 14, 2022
@AnitaH2 LOL! If you've got a content warning warning about swearing, then there's no need to go "sh*t f*ck" really, right?
As I've mentioned in an earlier reply. There's nothing wrong with going, this is a "whatever type of plant" and then do a broad strokes description; flower colour, relative size, whatever is important to the toot, then invite people to ask for more description if they want it.
Show threadhallvorsNov 13, 2022
@Cassana thank you!
Show threadIdris 💙Nov 13, 2022
@Cassana
Someone posted yesterday that all hashtags should be grouped at the end because screen readers couldn't handle them within the text. As I can see that you embedded hashtags within your text, I am now questioning that advice. If you could advise, I would be grateful.
Show threadCassanaNov 14, 2022
@RomanticSkeptic also adding in @arose62 Hashtags in text in a web browser are separate linked element; so the toot won't read as a full paragraph. But this is common across the web, look at Wikipedia, and in most mobile apps I've seen, the grouping is different but absolutely fine. So it's all good. Place them wherever.
Show threadCanyonRNov 14, 2022
@RomanticSkeptic @arose62 @Cassana thank you for clarifying this. I’ve also been told the “put all the hashtags at the end” advise.
Show threadJuliaNov 14, 2022
@Cassana as one of the people who was asking this question only yesterday, thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to answer from an informer perspective 😊
Show threadBen CrowellNov 14, 2022
@Cassana Hi - @heafnerj was just asking about best practices for posting math on mastodon so it's accessible. Any suggestions you could offer? Sorry, I'm new to mastodon, so I don't know if giving his username is the best way to direct you to a thread that he started and that's been active recently. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide! -Ben
Show threadJoe HeafnerNov 14, 2022
@ben_crowell_fullerton @Cassana Thank you very much.
Show threadKara ShallenbergNov 14, 2022
@Cassana Thank you so much for this. Is it irritating when there are lots of exclamation points?
Show threadMVNDVS PATEATNov 14, 2022

@Cassana As the writer of a screenreadish-thing I can confirm the last one is absolutely true. Although it depends more on the backend synth in my experince

Don't have any experience with 1 or 2 as my userbase me and five others as far as i know. And those features have never been requested. But I'll consider doing both in the rewrite :)

Show threadRosanitaNov 14, 2022
@Cassana Thank you for sharing and educating us. I had no idea about hashtags.
Show threadCarly SaganNov 14, 2022
@Cassana wait. How can you post this much? Lol. My posts appear to cut me off at a third of this - like 400 characters?
Show threadCareyNov 14, 2022
@carlysagan @Cassana Her instance is running a custom "fork" of Mastodon called Hometown with a higher character count limit and a few other changes. But everything still works on your instance and mine despite this!
Show threadAlexander Hamizdat Nov 14, 2022

@Cassana in #programming they call that #CamelCase (or #PascalCase for the #Pedants) to describe using the first letter of each crushed-together word as an indicator that there's a word border.

They have totally different motivations to do so, but you can communicate the whole idea with like two words. :)

Show threadCassanaNov 14, 2022
@alexhammy209 I know, but not everyone knows those terms, so it's often better to just show it.
Show threadAlexander Hamizdat Nov 14, 2022
@Cassana hi there I'm a twitter emigre still trying to learn my manners thanks for being patient
Show threadCharles RoperNov 14, 2022

@alexhammy209 @Cassana We are all pedants in programming. Kinda comes with the territory. 😆

Also see #snake_case and #kebab-case

Show threadCopperNov 14, 2022
@Cassana Thank you for sharing! Admittedly I tend to forget or avoid alt text for images. Words are hard for me, not sure if it's due to being a visual thinker, or if it's a developmental issue. Either way I probably should do my best, even if I can only write out something robotic.
Show threadCassanaNov 14, 2022
@DanitheCarutor Anything helps. It doesn't have to be perfect prose. Trust me, we can cope with funky descriptions. And if we want to know more, we can always ask. So all good.
Show threaddasNessieNov 14, 2022
@DanitheCarutor @Cassana If you want an automated reminder when you forget to put a description, you can follow @PleaseCaption and it will reply to any media without a description
Show threadShanti's Hellbound HeartNov 14, 2022
@DanitheCarutor @Cassana I saw a bot account on here, which if you follow it posts you a reply saying "you forgot your alt text on this, you should delete and redraft.
Now, if you give me a moment, I shall go and check who I am following and come back to you 😊
Show threadShanti's Hellbound HeartNov 14, 2022
@DanitheCarutor @Cassana
The bot is https://botsin.space/@PleaseCaption (I'm not sure how to get their tag to add in to the conversation because I am a noob!)
Please Caption Bot (@[email protected])

6 Posts, 8.59K Following, 12K Followers · A bot that reminds you to caption your toots' images and videos

botsin.space
Show threadNatanael ⚠️Jan 9, 2023

@shanti @DanitheCarutor @Cassana for account you follow you can type @ username (without spaces!) and the text editor will suggest matching accounts, including the accounts you're following even if it's on another instance. Select the one you intended and it will be treated as a mention for them.

You can also always mention people on other servers with the syntax @ username @ server.com

Show threadNatanael ⚠️Jan 9, 2023
@shanti @DanitheCarutor @Cassana so for caption bot it becomes @ PleaseCaption@ botsin.space (remove spaces), which will look like this when typed as a mention @[email protected]
Show threadShanti's Hellbound HeartJan 11, 2023
@Natanael_L @DanitheCarutor @Cassana @PleaseCaption thank you for the help 😁
Show threadHeather Nov 14, 2022

@Cassana First of all, I want to thank you so much for sharing your advice and experience with us! I appreciate it so much!

I have a question about emoji use, especially custom emojis that are added to various mastodon instances. How are they interpreted by screen readers? Does it matter what the short code is for custom emojis to make them more accessible?

(Thank you again, and feel free to ignore if you're overwhelmed!)

Show threadJason TownsendNov 14, 2022

@Cassana Can you weigh in on the best way to post Wordle results? See my question here:

https://sfba.social/@townsend/109338718715297464

Jason Townsend (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] OK, so is the best practice to screenshot the image and put the accessibility text as alt text on the image? And put this behind a content warning as well?

SFBA.social
Show threadHoward ChengNov 14, 2022
@Cassana Just wondering, but how did you make your post longer than 500 characters?
Show threadCourtney Heard 🇨🇦Nov 14, 2022
@Cassana Thank you for sharing.
Show threadaztecladyNov 14, 2022

@Cassana Thank you for taking the time to share this.

If you wouldn't mind, I have a question about book titles: what's the best way to indicate that a word/words/phrase are part of a book title? (and while I'm at it, are the slash between words useful or annoying?)

Some people use underscore before and after for book titles, does that work? Is there a better convention?

Thank you in advance.

Show threadCassanaNov 14, 2022
@herhandsmyhands Context is often enough. Even so if you put the title between quotation marks, that may help clarify the context further for those who have their screen reader set to read those. Basically write the way you would talk to someone about a book.
Show threadaztecladyNov 14, 2022
@Cassana Thank you, much appreciated.
Show threadRouge - Pictures of JapanNov 14, 2022
@Cassana Hi! Thank you so much for this explanation! I have a question about using different languages in an image description: is there a way to do it without messing it for screen reader users? Thanks to anyone who would answer me and help with that!
Show threadCassanaNov 14, 2022
@Blanche Some screen readers can detect languages/alphabets and switch voices automatically. Others need to switch manually. So, let's say you've got a picture of a Japanese shop front, it's fine to include the Hiragana/Katakana/Kanji; screen readers that can switch mid-sentence will go from English to Japanese without much issue. Others need to switch to Japanese manually and then read the included Japanese text. Then again, in your post you may mention the Romaji name of the shop anyway, so even if there's no Japanese voice installed, the context is still clear. There usually is a workaround. :)
Show threadKevanNov 14, 2022
@Cassana I'm a screen reader user, and I'm surprised accessibility and alt text are getting all this attention from the sighted world here on Mastodon. On other, corporately owned social networks sometimes it feels like we're an afterthought honestly.
Show threadCassanaNov 14, 2022
@kev Yup, I love it.
Show threadJohroseNov 28, 2022
@kev @Cassana I didn't even know they existed before coming here. It is great to be made more aware.
Show threadErtainNov 14, 2022
@Cassana Thank you for posting this. It's great that we are helping people with using this software. It's one of the reasons why I always write in grammatically correct sentences, and try to put in a description for the photos I post.
Show threadLizbonNov 14, 2022
@Cassana Thank you for sharing this!
Show threadTedNov 14, 2022
@Cassana Thank you so much for sharing actual experience! Bookmarking this and sharing wide with other admins and mods
Show threadTedSarvataNov 14, 2022
@Cassana @MarkDilley #CamelCase
Show threadReina  Nov 14, 2022

@Cassana Thank you! So much better to hear straight from the source! And to be able to ask someone who's blind directly.

Have you been blind your whole life? If so, how does that affect image descriptions for you? Because when I describe an image, I would probably naturally start explaining it using descriptions that are very biased towards having been able to see all my life.

Show threadCassanaNov 16, 2022
@Reina I became blind later. The important thing to remember is that everyone has their own stories of blindness/low-vision, so some think visually (and I still do after this long), and others don't. So, hence the "go nuts with detail", because that'll catch as many situations as possible.
Show threadDoohickie Nov 14, 2022
@Cassana I never once thought of alt text for my own images until @lynnskyi who I met on my server mindly.social said she benefits from them. So I've started describing what's in my photos. I like to hear that others will benefit from those descriptions too.
Show threadTruJuLo MediaNov 14, 2022
@Cassana Thank you so much for this. I will do better.
Show threadSøren Markvard RiisNov 14, 2022
@Cassana This is both interesting and very helpful.
Show threadJoan of Cat (she/her) 😼Nov 14, 2022

@Cassana

Oh wow! Thank you for this!

Implementing it immediately! 💙

Show threadKay   Nov 14, 2022
@Cassana Please check out @JonathanMosen and his podcast @MosenAtLarge He's blind and uses a screenreader and advocates for inclusion too.