No war but the car war
Chris TrottierEveryone gives Meta and Twitter flack for the hellscape that is social media.
But you know who else deserves flack? Google.
They killed RSS so that everyone would use Google+ for news. Instead, everyone used Facebook and Twiter.
Oblomov@atomicpoet
I don't really think that's something that could be put on Google though. The migration off RSS to Facebook and Twitter had started before Google killed its Reader.
I don't really think that's something that could be put on Google though. The migration off RSS to Facebook and Twitter had started before Google killed its Reader.
@atomicpoet
Actually, if anything, one could argue that G+ was the failed attempt of Google to keep up with the competition. Ironically, today if they wanted to do that, they could try help the #Fediverse grow, just to subtract ad revenue from the competition.
Actually, if anything, one could argue that G+ was the failed attempt of Google to keep up with the competition. Ironically, today if they wanted to do that, they could try help the #Fediverse grow, just to subtract ad revenue from the competition.
Daniel Schildt@oblomov @atomicpoet Wasn't that what they did with AMP feeds? Essentially those injected tracking and ads to 3rd party websites, while preferring Google's ads systems instead of the competitors. Essentially, the legal cases against Google are largely about the monopoly on advertising systems.
@oblomov Google's many screw-ups with social media are long and varied.
During the entire span that Google's been around, they launched and then killed:
1. Orkut
2. Wave
3. Buzz
4. Jaiku
5. Shoelace
That's not even all of them!
@oblomov Also, Google Reader is exactly why Google should not be trusted with the Fediverse.
Even if they achieved market dominance with a Google-branded instance, they would eventually kill it. And then the whole Fediverse would die along with it.
@oblomov What's even more funny about this is that Google Wave was originally made to kill GMail (and by extension email). Yet email's still around even if in a Google-branded zombified state.
@atomicpoet
Oh, I never said it would be good for he #Fediverse if Google tried to enter the field, just that it might be a good strategy for them.
Oh, I never said it would be good for he #Fediverse if Google tried to enter the field, just that it might be a good strategy for them.
@oblomov I know -- I have no doubt that Google will try their hand at the Fediverse. It will launch to much fanfare. People will flock to it because it's Google.
And I just hope that the community is prepared and willing to give the Google instance a big middle finger.
@atomicpoet
I'm actually not that sure people will flock to it that enthusiastically, especially if it “misses the train”. Google is in a bad position timing-wise: their G+ blunder is still pretty fresh in people's mind, but the #Fediverse uptick is _now_: a few years down the line G+ might be far enough that its failure isn't taken seriously anymore, but the switch to the fediverse might be far enough that a Google alternative won't be that appealing.
I'm actually not that sure people will flock to it that enthusiastically, especially if it “misses the train”. Google is in a bad position timing-wise: their G+ blunder is still pretty fresh in people's mind, but the #Fediverse uptick is _now_: a few years down the line G+ might be far enough that its failure isn't taken seriously anymore, but the switch to the fediverse might be far enough that a Google alternative won't be that appealing.
@atomicpoet
They would have to come out of the box with a very solid alternative with a killer feature (like, a multi-platform instance, maybe?), and the only base platforms they have to build on are photos and videos. Their only selling point could be that you could find contacts by email search because they'd have the link already.
They would have to come out of the box with a very solid alternative with a killer feature (like, a multi-platform instance, maybe?), and the only base platforms they have to build on are photos and videos. Their only selling point could be that you could find contacts by email search because they'd have the link already.
@oblomov Let me re-phrase. People won't flock to it. Google fanboys -- which are many -- will flock to it.
And the tech media, being what they are, will sell the hype -- declare the Fediverse dead when Google eventually fails.
Kind of like what's happening right now with streaming video games.
Despite fanboys saying it was the greatest thing, Stadia failed? That means the entire notion of streaming video games is dead -- so the tech media will say.
Ah, that's a much more likely scenario, yes.
(That being said, I remain unconvinced about the streaming video game concept, so that might actually be one thing that the tech media got right —albeit for the wrong reasons ;-))
Nick Fox-Gieg@oblomov @atomicpoet imo Stadia's commercial viability depended a lot on their fiber initiative, and so its fate was tied to that. Cable and phone internet in North America just can't support mass-market ultra-low-latency video streaming
That's a good point, but I doubt it would have gone anywhere in Europe either, where fiber is not that uncommon. The latency is still ridiculously high (> 20ms for anything past the gateway).
Hans Gerwitz@atomicpoet @oblomov especially when they ties Google Play to it so every Android user suddenly is in the fediverse with a @gsocial.whatever address
Kudra 
@oblomov @atomicpoet photos and videos are not that bad a starting point for a social network, especially with the features Google already has. If Google genuinely implemented a SN with interoperability even with the intent to dominate, there's surely the risk of it being tainted once there's another "new thing" on the block - but maybe by that point we'll have some legislation in place requiring a basic level of interoperability. Like railway or mobile phone networks. And then it just becomes a case of which instance is no longer cool, we don't lose our connections and need to decamp to somewhere etc... I live in hope.
Tane Piper ⁂@atomicpoet @oblomov also what they did to Usenet
Oh, THAT is something I really despise them for.
noodlejetski 🌻
Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️@atomicpoet @oblomov I feel like you missed the biggest one of all: Google Minus, er "plus".
Can't say that I'm sad in the slightest that their social attempts failed.
rastinza@oblomov @atomicpoet I'm actually quite surprised they're not doing that already.
Their competitors are investing pretty hard in openstreetmaps to lower the value of Google Maps.
I think the investment in openstreetmaps is overall quite good for the project itself.
I guess Google might be better off paying some developers to work for the fediverse to improve the systems and so on rather than opening their own instance.
They won't be making money off off it, but if that helps taking down the user base of Twitter, that will make them more prominent among the other tech companies.
Wendy MsGator 🐊@oblomov @atomicpoet I had a terrific Google+ account. Stupid Google.
@oblomov I think it kind of can be put on Google, though.
Google cornered the market on RSS readers. After it achieved market dominance, they killed it in an attempt to promote their social network.
This is textbook embrace, extend, extinguish.
OK, that's a valid point, although one could debate that e.g. Firefox removing ease of access to RSS had about as much to do with it as Google's EEE.
@oblomov Not to sound like too much of a conspiracy theorist, but it's apparent to me that the Mozilla Foundation has been compromised by Google.
Can't exactly say Firefox's removal of RSS was order by Google. Nevertheless, I very much see Firefox as "controlled opposition" if you will.
Anyway, by the time Firefox removed RSS they were completely de-fanged as a major force on the browser market.
But hey, I still use it 🙂
@atomicpoet
Eh, I don't know about that. Firefox has been massively mismanaged ad have at times lost focus on what they could stand for, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt of that being more a matter of incompetence and lack of focus in the leading positions than it being external pressure.
Eh, I don't know about that. Firefox has been massively mismanaged ad have at times lost focus on what they could stand for, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt of that being more a matter of incompetence and lack of focus in the leading positions than it being external pressure.
@atomicpoet (Hanlon's razor, was it?)
@oblomov No, I don't think it's malice. I just don't think Firefox will do anything to go counter to (probably) their biggest donor: Google.
This thought popped up when the EU tried to go after Google for their browser monopoly.
And who put out a big PR statement defending Google? The Mozilla Foundation.
So yeah, I'd say not malice -- stupidity.
mofumofu@oblomov @atomicpoet I still use RSS but I started after the demise of Google Reader. I never heard about RSS until after it’s death. So I wonder, how really popular were RSS readers back in the day. Super popular among “tech nerds” I assume… but never heard non tech people (the people who would use Facebook or Twitter nowadays) mentioning news aggregators or RSS feeds
Annie in Progress@mofumofu @oblomov @atomicpoet Most of the ppl I've seen on FB probably don't know what RSS is and some are still reading paper newspapers.
Noah Mittman 
@oblomov @atomicpoet True, but I think the point was that they then didn't invest into it to improve it, likely because they thought they saw a new path to "owning" it with G+ in that FB/Twitter way
7sleepersmusic@atomicpoet I still use RSS, even built my own newsreader! But it’s surprising how many news outlets no longer offer it :-(
leanhsi@atomicpoet RIP Google Reader :((
NMW
mrpieceofwork@atomicpoet ALL Big Date failed us. (I'm just still bitter that FB deleted my Notes with NO warning... like, I checked my emails for that, again, literally an hour ago lol)
Mx. Alba 
@atomicpoet I remember a time when I practically lived in Google Reader, soaking up many dozens of RSS feeds from a wide range of news sources... I was so sad when they killed it.
stevegio@atomicpoet I think Google intentionally tried to kill RSS but their actions in response to the failure of Google+ (and most of their social experiments) didn’t help. Regardless RSS is still very much alive. It’s the backbone on which Podcasting is built on and most sites still support feeds. A lot of folks still use The Old Reader. I do every day.
Julien Deswaef 
@atomicpoet Just a small nuance. They did not kill RSS. They killed RSS Reader.
But yeah, that clearly impacted the global availability of RSS feeds. Though it’s not dead.
Gustomela 🏕️🪵🐻@atomicpoet except, RSS is still alive (and moderately kicking)
🏳️🌈Trentskunk🏳️🌈
@atomicpoet
I still use RSS every day. Both to keep up with stuff, and oddly enough, it makes a great way to keep up with updates to software I installed from GitHub, etc.
I still use RSS every day. Both to keep up with stuff, and oddly enough, it makes a great way to keep up with updates to software I installed from GitHub, etc.
Seth is Pissed
Charles J Gervasi ⚡🛡️🥥@atomicpoet I remember there being many RSS readers. I wonder if users felt like it was easier to have someone else find them things to follow and stop following, and now they're reconsidering that.
Alison@atomicpoet RSS is still my favorite way to read the internet. The fact that there's less of it to read due to Google's incessant capitalist grabbiness just means there's more time for me to write markdown files and music. Thanks Google! #plaintextallthewaydown
Trike Homard@atomicpoet I still use RSS everyday, but I think your point is sound. There are sites that used to offer feeds that don’t anymore, with the expectation you’ll follow them on a social media site instead, and that’s a shame.
Steve@atomicpoet I was ticked to see Google Reader get killed off. As part of dipping into #decentralized I stood up a FreshRSS instance a month or two ago. A self-hosted Google Reader clone. I also route a bunch of email newsletters through DuckDuckGo's email defanger and kill-the-newsletter, which converts emails into RSS Atom feeds.
To top it all off, I read it all with the Brave browser behind two layers of pi-hole. Makes for a very nice experience.
Rastal@atomicpoet Google don't have a monopoly on RSS and it's beyond Google's power to kill RSS. RSS is a free protocol, still widely available and doesn't require Google.
Ken in Harpswell@atomicpoet Losing RSS in Google was painful but there are other readers. I use Inforeader. The RSS publishers are still there.
CarrieSDicksonYes, for news,
I've gone back to RSS for news from fav. sources, which I read with an RSS reader.
It's actually very good, interesting and calm
Steffani Cameron@atomicpoet Hey Chris! I just joined here. You’re nice and established.
I’m gonna be a nerd and tell you that it’s “flak” when it’s gunfire/attack, aka flak jacket — but “flack” is a media lackey or PR type. :)
gracelandwest@atomicpoet This is not incorrect.
Karen E. Lund 💙💛@atomicpoet And then killed Google+, which I kind of liked at first, before it became fake military men "circling" me (and other women, but only women) in the creepiest possible way.
Moderation counts, people. The ability to really block users and filter topics also counts.
Neil E. Hodges@atomicpoet I really wish RSS would return to being universal.
Marco Raaphorst@atomicpoet no one can kill RSS
Annie Mendelsohn@atomicpoet when Facebook, Twitter and Google chose to stop paying for legitmate news, fake news and cyberwar proliferated. Their extreme greed caused monumental harm that continues to far outweigh any good. Grateful to #mastodon for this go at social media decency.
C J Fryer@atomicpoet It was my impression RSS started to die off when news publishers found they couldn't graph "eyeballs" on their site, and couldn't reliably cram adverts into their feeds. They tried to work around it for a while by publishing intros/standfirsts/teasers instead of full articles, but then gave up.
fh0@atomicpoet RSS is not dead.
There are plenty of awesome open source rss-readers.
Google reader was only one of many.
There are plenty of awesome open source rss-readers.
Google reader was only one of many.
Fear and Tooting in Las Vegas@atomicpoet Then they killed G+, which caused Yet Another round of a particular social circle that’s been together since the early 90s trying to find a new home. MeWe, then when that turned out to be a giant pile of flaming shit eventually discord.
Jessica. 🦕@atomicpoet
I am still a huge RSS/atom feed user, and it seems to be making a resurgence.
I am still a huge RSS/atom feed user, and it seems to be making a resurgence.