https://ia.cr/2025/1296 sounds disrupting.. looking 4 qualified opinions…

Tags to improve post exposure: #ZKP #simulator #cryptography #trustedsetup #interactive #soundness

Gödel in Cryptography: Effectively Zero-Knowledge Proofs for NP with No Interaction, No Setup, and Perfect Soundness

A zero-knowledge proof demonstrates that a fact (like that a Sudoku puzzle has a solution) is true while, counterintuitively, revealing nothing else (like what the solution actually is). This remarkable guarantee is extremely useful in cryptographic applications, but it comes at a cost. A classical impossibility result by Goldreich and Oren [J. Cryptol. '94] shows that zero-knowledge proofs must necessarily sacrifice basic properties of traditional mathematical proofs --- namely perfect soundness (that no proof of a false statement exists) and non-interactivity (that a proof can be transmitted in a single message). Contrary to this impossibility, we show that zero-knowledge with perfect soundness and no interaction is effectively possible. We do so by defining and constructing a powerful new relaxation of zero-knowledge. Intuitively, while the classical zero-knowledge definition requires that an object called a simulator actually exists, our new definition only requires that one cannot rule out that a simulator exists (in a particular logical sense). Using this, we show that **every falsifiable security property of (classical) zero-knowledge can be achieved with no interaction, no setup, and perfect soundness.** This enables us to remove interaction and setup from (classical) zero-knowledge in essentially all of its applications in the literature, at the relatively mild cost that such applications now have security that is "game-based" instead of "simulation-based." Our construction builds on the work of Kuykendall and Zhandry [TCC '20] and relies on two central, longstanding, and well-studied assumptions that we show are also necessary. The first is the existence of non-interactive witness indistinguishable proofs, which follows from standard assumptions in cryptography. The second is Krajícek and Pudlák's 1989 conjecture that no optimal proof system exists. This is one of the main conjectures in the field of proof complexity and is the natural finitistic analogue of the impossibility of Hilbert's second problem (and, hence, also Gödel's incompleteness theorem). Our high-level idea is to use these assumptions to construct a prover and verifier where no simulator exists, but the non-existence of a simulator is independent (in the logical sense of unprovability) of an arbitrarily strong logical system. One such logical system is the standard axioms of mathematics: ZFC.

IACR Cryptology ePrint Archive
@mfowler the article gives a quite good account of the problems of #LLMs. Indeed, there is no element that guarantees the coherence, truth, or even the likelihood of the responses. However, this is not alone due to the probabilistic nature of those systems. There are probabilistic logics that, unlike LLMs, provide #guarantees for results. LLMs have not been designed to provide any guarantee for the #soundness of their results, but to provide good scores in benchmarks.

The thing is, people think "Oh, validity is such a harsh mistress, she won't let any weak nonsense through"... but they (aided by how academic charity has been interpreted) forget about soundness.

Of course, soundness is irrelevant in mind experiments. When you say "all boys wear hats" you are not talking about actual boys, but rather you are defining an imaginary world where this is a foundational law, all boys wear hats. Any hatless wonder, whatever else it might be, is no boy.

But people are seldom satisfied with conclusions that only pertain to their own imaginary realms, and so they project their conclusions to an actuality in which soundness is not something that can be defined into being.

And that makes for very flimsy arguments.

For reality, deduction can, only really combine existing knowledge, and only to the extent that knowledge is trustworthy.

#logic #soundness
#validity

@chrisoffner3d exactly. Similar to mathematics teachers who explain errors in reasoning to pupils, we will need #informationdetectives who will spot errors in the output of #transformernetworks. It will be a gigantic task to establish #soundness in the coming age of #disinformation. Alternatively, we could simply avoid using an immature and problematic technology in products. But many people don’t get the issue. May be these are those who didn’t get the teachers’ explanations?
@vaishakbelle the purpose of #logicalreasoning is not to model the thought processes in our mind, but to define reasoning which is sound. Logic has complex rules, but a simple semantics. This semantics works well for mathematical, philosophical, and legal problems, but not for #commonsense reasoning. AI research discovered these issues in the 1970ies, but no simple solution has been found. And #deeplearning does not solve them either since #soundness does not matter in this field.

Treasury Secretary Yellen
Told senators the US banking system dwellin'
Is full of soundness and sure
And Americans endure
That the bank will be there when they're callin'

#yellen #usbanking #soundness #treasury #limerick #poetry

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/yellen-tells-senators-us-banking-system-remains-sound-2023-03-16/

US banking system sound but not all deposits guaranteed, Yellen says

The U.S. banking system remains sound and Americans can feel confident that their deposits are safe, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said on Thursday, but she denied that emergency actions after two large bank failures mean that a blanket government guarantee now existed for all deposits.

Reuters

🚀 Getting back into the social groove by sharing a note about the #OER we have launched this week; see this Scholarly Communication Notebook post for more: https://lisoer.wordpress.ncsu.edu/2023/01/09/new-to-the-scn-publishing-values-based-scholarly-communication/

Our process has been truly collaborative and created entirely online; a cross-continental experience bringing joy (plus 💫 and 🦕) during testing times. It's also a resource enriched with the values of #openness #collegiality and #soundness. Much gratitude to all contributors for sharing their examples and the HuMetricsHSS team for inspiring a way to champion #publiclyengagedscholarship

🔗 to the site in bio and a big virtual 🤗 to anyone who joins our HC group! Let's keep the conversation going...

New to the SCN: Publishing Values-based Scholarly Communication – OER + ScholComm

In #logic, there are two complementary ideas called "#soundness" and "#completeness". Formal systems that are sound and complete are the holy grail of theoretical computer science. These ideas form the foundation of all mathematical reasoning today, and we are all still grappling with the implications of Goedel's results. This (technical) opinion piece tries to articulate the question of whether #MachineLearning is sound and complete.
https://arxiv.org/abs/2209.04049
Dr. Neurosymbolic, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Accept Statistics

The symbolic AI community is increasingly trying to embrace machine learning in neuro-symbolic architectures, yet is still struggling due to cultural barriers. To break the barrier, this rather opinionated personal memo attempts to explain and rectify the conventions in Statistics, Machine Learning, and Deep Learning from the viewpoint of outsiders. It provides a step-by-step protocol for designing a machine learning system that satisfies a minimum theoretical guarantee necessary for being taken seriously by the symbolic AI community, i.e., it discusses "in what condition we can stop worrying and accept statistical machine learning." Unlike most textbooks which are written for students trying to specialize in Stat/ML/DL and willing to accept jargons, this memo is written for experienced symbolic researchers that hear a lot of buzz but are still uncertain and skeptical. Information on Stat/ML/DL is currently too scattered or too noisy to invest in. This memo prioritizes compactness, citations to old papers (many in early 20th century), and concepts that resonate well with symbolic paradigms in order to offer time savings. It prioritizes general mathematical modeling and does not discuss any specific function approximator, such as neural networks (NNs), SVMs, decision trees, etc. Finally, it is open to corrections. Consider this memo as something similar to a blog post taking the form of a paper on Arxiv.

arXiv.org