Pete Hegseth coming to Europe at a time of war and telling us, we have an immigrant problem, really reveals how little he understands about European economy.
In Denmark where I live, 12 percent of our GDP is created by foreign workers. If we said no thanks to that, we could not afford the impressive quality in our healthcare sector, our Ukraine aid, etc.
But the good news is, he will find out, because farms in the US have lost the foreign workers that were not white enough to the Trump regime.
Hospitals across Northern Europe *do* have a lot of immigrants in them - they are the healthcare workers! These include qualified nurses and doctors), porters, cleaners, maintenance staff etc
Some might be white (particularly in countries still in EU), others are from Asia and Africa.
If these workers weren't there, the healthcare system would struggle even more to find staff (especially as populations are ageing and birth rates declining in Northern Europe).
this is a wider problem across many industries (not just healthcare, its also an issue in automotive and skilled trades) - for 30 years many businesses refused to invest in training, and migrants from lower income countries come ready trained. Its not something that can be stopped simply by restricting immigration alone (we've already proven this in UK with Brexit, ending freedom of movement and making immigration more difficult hasn't resulted in either private or public sector investing in young staff), and is likely to need government intervention and public money spent on training (which British folk constantly moan about)
@vfrmedia @shemjm @david @randahl I am in the US but my PCPs office was staffed with a bunch of medical residents from Canada and they were/are FANTASTIC people.
Some may stay after their residency, some may go back to Canada after training, but they are a huge asset and benefit to this entire state.
@shemjm Pretty key * in that chart. "And their descendants."
That is to say, the groups that have higher numbers of children (which is to say, the people producing the next generation of Danes) are being charged for all the early life costs that I mentioned above.
@UrbanEdm and lets not forget the cost of prison spaces and policing the crime.
Denmark and Norway around 30% foreign born prison population.
I'm not convinced that the numbers really do add up to much positive gain.
https://childrenofprisoners.eu/facts_and_figures/foreign-detainees/
Source: Aebi, M. F. & Cocco, E. (2025). SPACE I – 2024 – Council of Europe Annual Penal Statistics: Prison populations. Council of Europe. Reference date for Czech Republic, Latvia, Lithuania & Portugal is 1st January 2024 (instead of 31st January 2024) Reference date for Poland & UK (England and Wales) is 31st December 2023 […]
@shemjm i see your toots on immigrants here.
I've seen your post on wanting to leave your country yourself.
(So let's call that to migrate, to become an immigrant)
In light of that your comments about immigrants read kind of "funny".
If you would migrate you'd be ( when following your reasoning) the criminal that does not add as much value as the rest ( neither will your offspring), putting a strain on other peoples healthcare system, and leave his own country to brain drain.
https://social.vivaldi.net/@shemjm/116544734731076453
Is that how you would like to be percieved?
😬💋🩷
The UK is a scary place. It's scary how normalised it has become for people to know of a shop/business in a high street that sells drugs to minors and do nothing about it. Either the police are incompetent and know nothing or they know about it and choose to not do anything. I'm trying to leave the country within the next decade. Just not sure where is safe. #UKPol #crime
@stephanies @UrbanEdm the chart says that Western immigrants do make a positive contribution overall 🤷♂️ I'm just reading the data presented by the Danish ministry of Finance.
But yes people leaving the UK would be brain drain but the UK has an excess of people anyway. Not enough jobs or opportunities to cover them all. I was thinking about countries like Latvia or Lithuania where a lot of people leave for work in countries like Denmark, those nations are missing the chance to develop a bit.
Maybe when a country takes on an immigrant worker, they should pay a contribution to the country of origin as that is the country that paid for the early education and healthcare and then lost the working age period.
@shemjm @UrbanEdm why do you use Latvia for the brain drain example?
And how much should the brain drain amount be?
Is the amount the same per person and country?
Does it matter if they are European or from outside of Europe?
Is a high paid worker worth more money?
Like what should a doctor be worth and be paid for more next to a teacher?
How would you value everybody?
And who should pay the brain drain bill?
The migrant to their own country or the country that recieves the migrant?
If the recieving country pays the bill does that not mean migrants will add less value?
And would that result in you having less oppertunity to actually migrate cause.. hey.. your going to cost them money.
When they now reap the benefits of the brain drain.
And yes that is a problem for the countries that experience brain drain. So i agree that this can be an issue.
When migrant should pay it.
And i'm going to use you as an example.
Are you capable of paying a x amount in money in order for you to leave the UK and go and work somewhere else when your might lose your job to AI?
I've got so many questions cause i feel like this complex issue you point to. It can't be solved with just one thing.
You also say .. not enough jobs in the UK.
To many people so it would be "ok" ( my words) to migrate?
Why do you think people migrate?
Are you any different than other people wanting to migrate for work?
Do you add more value or less value as a coder in comparisson to lets say a doctor from Syria?
Do you understand why i'm asking you these questions?
Hi,
I was thinking about it earlier. I'd say that the arrangement would be between the countries. The host country would pay a fee towards the country of origin based on tax paid by the migrant worker. The migrant worker doesn't pay any extra.
I used Latvia as an example because it popped on my feed somewhere about not having enough workers.
I think there should be an extra cost of using migrant workers to stop nations slacking on the training of their own youth. Which is another big problem in the UK at the moment.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gzl2yl24o
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3wl17l3ggqo
@shemjm ok a question so when someone from a rich country goes to work as doctor (as an example) in a poor country that country should pay that rich country money?
Feels kind of not ok to me.
And i understand in some cases you might think that migration might change when you say you have to pay a brain drain fine.
Say people cannot migrate.
Countries will experience shortage in workers (demografics can be wrong)
The economy might come to a standstill or maybe shrink.
We have a shortage in people who are willing and able to work in healthcare. The baby boomers are now old and there are not enough young people to help them.
I don't think migration is wrong.
People have always migrated.
When in one place there is no work and the other has a lot of work but no people to do the work migration is one of the ways to "fix"it.
Is it really slacking in training of their own youth? Or are there underlying problems that makes the gap between what is needed in the country and who is capable to do the work? Demografics can be one issue.
And i do agree that countries that are not able to train their citizens should get help in doing so. Not a fine but help.
And get help with having enough jobs for people to actually make a living wage.
if someone comes to a country and works, they are paying for the healthcare of the old racists who vote to send them home
"if you didn't have the immigrants there would be less demand on said healthcare"
who believes this ignorant shit?
oh right, the old racists who apparently don't want enough money for their healthcare
it doesn't help them but it does help the plutocrats and fascists who don't want to pay for it, and can convince morons to vote against their own interests
Fun fact: Pete Hegseth is a foreigner in Europe …
@Limnobotanik @jackpearse @randahl
but they were white #immigrants
all the noise over #immigration in the #USA is a dog whistle for #racism
proof:
the USA has fast tracked *white* immigrants from #SouthAfrica while they spend so much time hating in immigrants otherwise
" #US Accepts Only White #Refugees For Sixth Consecutive Month"
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2026/06/south-africa-white-genocide-afrikaner-refugees-asylum/
@benroyce @Limnobotanik @jackpearse @randahl I suggest watching "It's a Wonderful Life" to get some perspective on this.
It *is* a great film but I feel that it is a treatise as to where Trumpist thinking on social classes and gender roles came from.
Almost all of the characters in the film are European immigrants with white faces.
Aside: the worst thing that could happen to the main characters wife (if he had never been born) would have been that she ended up as a spinster librarian.
He is so stupid , he didn’t even understand that the nazis called the D-Day ‘die Invasion’
Or did he think that the GIs were the bad guys ?
A citizen is just an immigrant with seniority. - Keith Wright
Hegseth (and the rest) also (willfully) fail to understand the _US_ economy, where something like _17%_ of the GDP is from the labor of immigrants.
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