There’s functionally no engineering reason to put a robot on two legs. Every other form factor is cheaper, more stable, more efficient, and easier to maintain.

There is, however, a very good marketing reason: everyone’s watched Terminator, fear goes viral, and anxiety drives attention.

A warehouse robot is infrastructure.

A humanoid robot is an engagement strategy…

@Daojoan oh oh oh, for once I have written something somewhat relevant on the topic

https://caffeineandlasers.com/blogs/WhyhumansarehumanoidshapedandwhySciFiMechsshouldnotbe.html

Biomimicry is good, but only makes sense if you are actually working in the same constraints as the biology you are mimicking

Why humans are humanoid-shaped, and why Sci-Fi Mechs should not be

This is a story through millions of years in its past to explain why humans are shaped the way we are, and millennia into the speculative future for why mechs should probably not replicate human geometry

Caffeine and Lasers
@Daojoan The argument is that they should be able to get around in a world designed for humans with two legs, and the argument is plausible.
@uecker @Daojoan and they’re getting very good at biped robots now. Compared to say 5 years ago…
@uecker @Daojoan
(stares in wheelchair accessibility)
@dec23k @Daojoan Sadly, this is what I was thinking.

@Daojoan

It is our desire to play God...

Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."

It is our desire to play God...
"So God created man in his own image"
The irony of being a skeptic is that the reverse is true.

CC: @[email protected]

@Daojoan

Aaakshully

Two legs makes sense.

1. Minimum suspension mats (vs tripod or quad+)

2. Nature doesn't do wheels.

3. There are other ground propulsion methods (wigglies etc) but not fast.

4. Once you got the balance software going, legs are super fast.

5. You could have alternatives, but they are medium specific (arboreal, hydrous), legs are universal.

6. Flight has specific downsides mass/energy also medium specific

Just about the only half decent alternative is snake.
But legs > snake

@n_dimension @Daojoan I'd say crabs instead of snakes. The crabbification must have some good reasons.
Everything is Crab: The Animal Evolution Roguelite on Steam

The Animal Evolution Roguelite. Hunt, Flee, Scavenge and Thrive in a living ecosystem. Choose from 125+ Evolutions and Specialisations for unique creature combinations in every run. Adapt to survive the natural curve in order to beat carcinisation... or get Darwin'd trying!

@n_dimension @Daojoan there must be a good reason for most mammals to be four legged

@ehproque @Daojoan

Good point!

In my most authoritative , though uninformed voice I will assert that's because;

a) Balance software not so good
b) Faster
c) Claws/Hooves can attack while relatively stable.

Human "forelimbs" evolved for grasping.

@ehproque @[email protected] @Daojoan It's because the particular fish that crawled up the beach 390 million years ago and was the ancestor of all terrestrial vertebrates had four load bearing fins.
We are tetrapods, and so are all mammals, birds and lizards (including snakes!).

@Daojoan

I bet they can by now, but the last time I checked with people who would know, it wasn't yet possible to build a robot that could catch anything but a perfectly thrown ball. Without requiring mobility, can a robotic arm catch a ball traveling at, say, 20km/hr through a 1m x 1m window?

@Daojoan oh yes the constant videos of biped robots falling over in amusing ways is driving fear into our hearts. Fear that will *something something* sell more robots!

@Daojoan It’s more than engagement IMO. It’s an attempt to directly devalue human worth.

https://humancode.us/2024/10/11/robots-should-not-look-like-people

Robots should not look like people

We already live among robots; machines that autonomously relieve us of tedious chores have existed for more than a century. But none of these robots look like people; and that’s for a good reason: their shape is dictated by their purpose.

humancode.us

@Daojoan
There is an interesting mixture of videos with ridiculously failing androids...
and astonishing abilities of others.
In one sort they look harmless and acceptable clumsy, even adorable mainly because of their human shape.
In another way they look very ..useful.

None of this should distract from their frighteningly rapid development.
None of this should distract from the question of who could benefit from their future capabilities and mass production.

#Armament #followthemoney

@Daojoan A bipedal design is hardly efficient for what we're trying to use robots for today.
@Daojoan Those gizmos that open greenhouse windows wider depending on temperature/sunlight are pretty cool (and purely passive, with no "intelligence" at all)
@Daojoan There is one reason. Robots will often have to work in a space designed by humans for humans, so they will need to mimic humans. Big companies have the money to create infrastructure that fits robots better. China has entire factories run by robots, where they work 24/7 with lights off. Amazon has warehouses that are completely flat, and riddled with guidelines and tracks on the floor. Not every company will have such infrastructure, so they'll need robots that can climb stairs instead.

@bit @Daojoan

There is another reason that should be obvious but isn’t, because for some reason we are never taught this when we are kids.

Of all large creatures, the human has the tightest turn radius.

(All they did was teach us how we were physically inferior blah blah blah. Meanwhile we had easily the tightest turn radius of all creatures. Even a chimp cannot turn as tightly. It is something very worth replicating in machinery.

A dog has to walk in a circle.)

@chemoelectric
Interesting. Never knew that. Thanks! 🙂
@Su_G I learnt it from one or more of Moshe Feldenkrais’s books. It is obvious once pointed out, though.
@Su_G Of course, he may have learnt it from whoever taught him Judo.
@chemoelectric
I plan to test it out soon… 🤗
@Su_G It is fascinating to watch how four-legged animals turn, once you know they are walking in a circle!
@chemoelectric @bit @Daojoan Hence the expression "tilting at windmills".

@bms48 @bit @Daojoan

That I do not understand. ‘Tilting’ is lowering your lance. A chimp could lower a lance. :)

@bit
“…they'll need robots that can climb stairs instead.” yeah, well, about that… see video clip above… can dance (a bit) can’t climb stairs… Michael Jackson probably rolling in his grave… 😆

@Daojoan

@Su_G @Daojoan I don't mind Michael Jackson turning in his grave. Might be worth keeping that robot around just for that purpose.
@bit @Daojoan well or like Daleks (who are of course Mechanical Turks) eventually learn to levitate.
@bit @Daojoan Legs are going to cost a lot more than wheels.
@Daojoan a lot of the engineers take ideas from fiction as well : )

@Daojoan

I always cringe at illustrations of “office AI assistants”. Humanoid robots who look at a big monitor and does input using a keyboard and mouse. JUST USE THE USB-C CONNECTOR ALREADY!!!

Of course, they are almost always white and the female bots have nice boobs. So infantilising.

Sarah Connor’s biggest mistake was failing to develop military grade glue guns. The first robot uprising would have been too sticky to do much damage 😁

@Daojoan Humans are the only mammal that walks upright on two legs. Humans are not natural to this planet. Discuss.

@BackFromTheDud @Daojoan

Mammals account for 0.06% of species on this planet. Being the only biped among such a trivially small group is hardly noteworthy.

@Daojoan well, uh, you've got an excellent point there about the fear aspect of duplicating the look of the Terminator or other villainous robots from popular entertainment, but...uh...having spent too much time on Twitter (in previous years) in mudfights with Elon Musk fanboys, let me add that they're also hopeful for humanoid sexbots. there's such a tremendous overpressure of sexual desperation in that crowd...