@adbenitez It's easy to say that one doesn't need better protocols after those better protocols have become so ubiquitous that you don't even realize how you're using them yourself.

Apple APNS and Google FCM use #XMPP technology to deliver push messages instantly. All the other messengers listed (#Signal, #Element, #DeltaChat) thus use XMPP technology. Everyone uses XMPP, but when it is about marketing, suddenly XMPP is not necessary.

@pixelschubsi buddy, you are completely missing the point

yeah, sure anyone can create 3rd party clients that are not feature-complete, but you can always point people to the official Delta Chat client and that is something that exists stable in all platforms, you don't have such stable cross-platform client in XMPP

besides, even the most simple of the demo client has a backup format that is compatible across all clients and it is possible to move from one client to another, in XMPP this doesn't exist, you can't export a backup from Conversations and import it in Gajim, etc

nor can you recommend the same app for desktop, android and Apple users

more importantly: even the most basic of clients have the same audited encryption etc. than the official client, in xmpp you can often end up even without any encryption at all, and super easy to disable it, it is such a bizarre thing not even worth keep talking about, chao

@darkcat09 @delta

@adbenitez @darkcat09 @delta Again, you are comparing Delta Chat (software) with XMPP (protocol). That makes no sense.

Of course I can't recommend the XMPP app for desktop, Android and Apple, because there is no XMPP app. None. Zero.

There are just apps that use the XMPP protocol, typically among other protocols. And DeltaChat is technically such an app (via APNS and FCM). Just like DeltaChat is an app that uses IMAP and SMTP protocols.

@darkcat09 @adbenitez @delta How about DeltaChat, which, as I just explained, is technically using XMPP (at least on Android and iOS).

I mean, I also firmly believe that "good UX both for mobile and desktop" and "consistent UI on both platforms" are actually mutually exclusive, because to have a good UX, you need to use platform-specific UI patterns, so it can't be consistent.
That's why I consider the DeltaChat UX on desktop pretty bad, but I guess you're a believer so I'm not going to fight.

@darkcat09 @adbenitez @delta
The HTTP API is for submission (how your server sends the message to their server, what SMTP does in email world), it's not for how the receiving client receives those messages from the server (what IMAP does in email world), that's still XMPP.

Tell your friends about your cool messenger where push notifications are not a feature (they will only know about new messages when they open the app). They are going to love it.