adb1d ago

I am very sorry for you to need to cope with this:

the best option for private chatting TODAY when it comes to #security, usability/user-friendly, #resilience, #digitalindependence and #freedom is #DeltaChat a chat app that uses #SMTP + #IMAP at its backbone, not your favorite "perfect" chat protocol, you don't need new better protocols, you need tools that actually work for the people

#xmpp #matrix #simplex #signal

Show threadpixelschubsi17h ago

@adbenitez It's easy to say that one doesn't need better protocols after those better protocols have become so ubiquitous that you don't even realize how you're using them yourself.

Apple APNS and Google FCM use #XMPP technology to deliver push messages instantly. All the other messengers listed (#Signal, #Element, #DeltaChat) thus use XMPP technology. Everyone uses XMPP, but when it is about marketing, suddenly XMPP is not necessary.

Show threadDelta Chat7h ago
@pixelschubsi @adbenitez new protocols are fine. The point may rather be that contrary to popular nerd belief protocols are only one part of an effort. What distinguishes #deltachat from #xmpp is that one is a cross-platform mass-user focused app with a consistent UX across the platforms and using standards under the hood, while the other is a set of specs with many different implementations and UX approaches on the various platforms, and sometimes tenuous compatibility between them.
Show threadpixelschubsi5h ago
@delta @adbenitez consistent UX, except when not.
Show threadAndrey [0xdc, 0x09];4h ago
@pixelschubsi @delta @adbenitez
It's not listed as an official client implementation
Show threadpixelschubsi4h ago
@darkcat09 @delta @adbenitez Official client implementation of what? Chatmail website also lists a lot of implementations with largely different UX: https://chatmail.at/clients
Chatmail: Clients

Chatmail provides FOSS infrastructure for interoperable, secure, speedy and reliable end-to-end encrypted messaging. Check out clients as Arcane Chat, Bots or Delta Chat today!

Show threadDelta Chat
@pixelschubsi @darkcat09 @adbenitez official "Delta Chat" client are found via https://get.delta.chat
11:08amWeb
Show threadpixelschubsi2h ago
@delta @darkcat09 @adbenitez That page lists DeltaTouch. Tell me again how DeltaTouch and Delta Chat have consistent UX? Here's a screenshot of the settings screen of both.
Show threadAndrey [0xdc, 0x09];2h ago

@pixelschubsi @delta @adbenitez

Ubuntu Touch

Minimum requirements: Ubuntu Touch 20.04

See blog for details about this community driven effort

Also, do you really use Ubuntu Touch on some of your devices??

Show threadpixelschubsi2h ago

@darkcat09 @delta @adbenitez I was pointed to that download page and it lists DeltaTouch. Don't put the blame on me.

But fine, you're effectively saying "Delta Chat does not support Ubuntu Touch".

Show threadpixelschubsi2h ago
@darkcat09 @delta @adbenitez Also, if DeltaTouch is a community driven effort, what is Delta Chat? A business driven effort?
Show threadAndrey [0xdc, 0x09];2h ago
@pixelschubsi @adbenitez
Ok, this one was funny, thanks 
Well, jokes aside, no, Delta Chat is not a commercial project. I guess @delta can tell a bit more.
What i actually meant is that there are official clients, maintained by the Delta Chat team, and unofficial ones, made by the community and not the team
Show threadpixelschubsi2h ago
@darkcat09 @adbenitez @delta Yes, jokes aside, I think that the concept alone of something "by the official team" and something "by the community" is problematic. It should be all considered the same. Maybe give them a quality rating (using rational criteria) or something, but the level of centralization that comes from this "official" notion IMO is against the principles of free (as in freedom) software, because it implies that a fork is less official and less suitable for people to use.
Show threadAndrey [0xdc, 0x09];1h ago

@pixelschubsi @adbenitez @delta
Right, that's a good point.

I remember, for example, that Matrix marks clients as Alpha/Beta/Stable (and Obsolete) in their list on matrix.org and allows to interactively filter by supported features.

By the way, as for the "features" filter. Afaik that's what Delta Chat wanted to avoid -- as stated previously, we want to be able to suggest a client that works well and supports all features consistently on all platforms.

And as for UI consistency. That doesn't mean we build a single cross-platform client, no. That's just, like, common UI concepts where it's applicable (e.g. we shouldn't bring swipes or other mobile gestures to desktop, obviously), a single translations source, same ordering of settings, of menu options, etc.

If we eventually create a list of clients with filters like on matrix.org, ig we can add "consistency" as a parameter?
Upd: consistency with what exactly? What is the reference ("official") implementation then?

But, on the other hand, if a developer wants their client to be consistent by features and UI across all (popular) platforms, but they don't build their own client for some of that platforms, then they have to work closely with Delta Chat team to get notified about new features, and…
that means they're a part of the team, but just working on a new client, not included in the "official list" before.

So. I think there should be a reference implementation anyway. Something which is like Element to Matrix. Well, a good reference implementation, which is the most used and most usable in the ecosystem, unlike Element.