0xda157 [daisy] 
MinmiTheDino“If you give ppl UBI, everyone’s just going to be making pots or painting or something!”
Good!! Good! Can’t express how much more I want to fill my home with pots and paintings than with a stovetop that inexplicably connects to the internet.
scott f@minmi Imagine thinking the allocation of resources and labor time we have now is good! In the midst of the AI bubble!
@scott truly wild that we are all basically spending money on things we hate and that’s just “the economy”.
Enia@eniatitova @scott does anyone else have a sneaking suspicion this isn’t sustainable?
the elder sea
We Are All Minnesota@minmi [star trek future intensifies]
The Doctor@NickGates @minmi Not if they can help it.
Andres@minmi Also, I bet people are going to be making stovetops that don't connect to the internet.
@Andres4NY unacceptable!
I AM BANKSY ☕ / 🗑🔥
👻™ supreme goblin 🐊@minmi Oh no! Artisan crafts would make a comeback! One of the oldest things humanity has been doing! The horror!!
@coriander god forbid!
Tom Magnanimous@minmi damn it sure would suck to have one of a kind durable goods made by my neighbor instead of shit shipped halfway across the globe and identical to thirty million other units
@funkula right?! Can’t have that.
Natanox 🇺🇦🇵🇸
Gregly@minmi Opposing UBI (or universal health care, or other social programs) is an essentially eugenicist policy.
Robbie 👾 (Author)
Keira (She/Her)@minmi exactly this.
And people will actively choose to do useful things (including pots and paintings) because deep down most people just want to please someone and go to bed feeling like a Good Dog, at least some days.
I've never yet met an adult who enjoys doing nothing useful, ever. It just might take some people a while to dust themselves off after their long period of workplace mistreatment.
@keira_reckons no, truly. Like you think of the human endeavors that really made us better off (polio vaccine?) and they were developed by people doing Herculean tasks cause they wanted to help. You actually don’t have to pay ppl that much to make the world better. The big money goes to ppl making it worse.
@minmi exactly
gkrnours
Kevin Karhan@minmi +9001%
PastaThief@minmi Plus, the big problem is that we're on the verge of eliminating a huge number of jobs, and the promise that the people making that happen make is that it'll free everyone up to make pots all day. If we don't have something like UBI, instead it'll free everyone up tp, you know, become homeless en masse.
@PastaThief @minmi Which might be part of the point.
Navi 
@PastaThief @minmi Finland, right now.
silica@minmi as someone realizing with horror that im probably going to be a software engineer after graduation, i cannot stress enough how much id rather be making pots and paintings than a stovetop that inexplicably connects to the internet
@silicasandwhich one day, I hope! But there is also so much cool stuff to do w software!
Flux@minmi I'm more concerned that landlords will just jack up rent to eat the UBI now they know you at least have that.
@Umbreon this is my main concern too. But seems like a tractable problem, especially given all the problems we face with our current system. But the concern of like “then no one will do any useful work!” Is just so dang hollow to me.
@minmi Agreed, I would also argue people might better able to find better work if their not dealing with welfare offices and often ridiculous amount of time wasted dealing with them and proving eligibility so that you don't starve while looking for another job.
I'm just worried about the inflationary and cost aspect but other than that.
toolbear#🌶️
LisPi
DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)
Anto
Rosy
Kagan MacTane (he/him)@minmi "If you give people UBI, they'll just... create useful houseware items! And make art, one of the hallmarks of an advanced healthy civilization!"
OK, but do you see how saying that like it's a bad thing means you're completely deranged? 🤨
Drew Scott Daniels@minmi
I hope we can all enjoy a future with more art. 🙂
I hope we can all enjoy a future with more art. 🙂
babble encat@minmi If I had UBI I might make a stovetop that doesn't need Internet
Sea@minmi “If you give ppl UBI, everyone’s just going to be making pots or painting or something!”
That's a good thing, make human creation relevant again instead of LLMs taking everything.
DianeMy bigger worry about UBI is without some other reforms whatever is given out as UBI will just be absorbed by the landlords.
I think there needs to be free or sliding scale housing to compete with the landlords.
patter@alienghic @minmi (not fully thought through idea)
we remove landlords & UBI includes a home. if you bought your house & live in it full time, keep it. if you bought it to rent & don't live there all the time, it's now nationalised
GinevraCat@minmi Firstly, hell yes. Secondly - patently untrue. Just look at all the electronic tinkerers, maths nerds, youtube scientists - people will also continue to keep seeking knowledge, keep improving technology and being geeky nerds in pretty much any field of human endeavour we can imagine.
We'll all be happier though.
Schroedingers_Cat@minmi And I want people to be able to do the things that they want, that make them happy, that enable them to express themselves.
I don't care if the results are all crap. I care that people feel that they are human.
Whereas currently, the capitalist slave economy dehumanises people.
Geoff Mackenzie@minmi it's nonsense anyway. If my basic needs were met, I'd be delighted to clean and repair stuff, help people get around, move things around my city, garden in the park, whatever needs done. Doing a variety of useful things is how I want to spend my time, I just can't because I have to work. I don't think I'm alone
suzanne@minmi
They always ignore the fact that most people will still want a higher standard of living than the UBI offers.
People will still work at jobs they aren't enamored with. They'll just have more time and flexibility to be creative and less incentive to work in poor conditions which makes things better for all of us!
Paul_IPv6OMFG yes!
let's stop putting folks into decades of debt for a degree as the "only path to being a 'good' citizen"... let's have more artists, artisans. let's give people a safety net so that corporations and corporate health care aren't shackles to bind us in economic slavery. give people the power and option to have some say in how they live their lives.
UBI and universal health care for all.
Orion Ussner kidder@minmi Damn right! Nobody should have to do anything more than contribute to the function of society. There's no *goal* here other than making life better for people and the environment around them. Just let people be people. Stockpiling money for the powerful is literally a waste of time and energy, and ultimately *diminishes* health and happiness.
Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]@minmi "But who will do cleaning and take out the bins and [insert other job that's vital but also kind of icky and looked down upon here]?"
So bear with me, some people actually enjoy those things too but either can't get paid for them or don't get paid nearly enough to do them to live on so they have to do something else or multiple things. There are people out there who would genuinely get far more joy and fulfilment from cleaning than from whatever they currently do to pay the rent.
Quasit@minmi
If you give people UBI but don't get rid of the oligarchs and capitalism, the price of everything will just go up sufficiently to erase that UBI—and probably more.
So if they give everybody $2,000 a month, the price of everything will probably go up $3,000 a month. If they increase the UBI to 3000, prices will go up to $4,000. Or 5,000. What you have to understand is that as far as the billionaires are concerned, any money we receive is rightfully theirs. And they will use ALL of their power to take it away from us. The working class must always be on the ragged edge of starvation at all times, in the eyes of the oligarchs.
So the UBI by itself is simply meaningless UNLESS we end capitalism. The necessities of life should be free to all, regardless of the specific costs. Everyone deserves housing, everyone deserves food, everyone deserves clean water, everyone deserves power and information.
Once the necessities are free, people can work and contribute to the general good. We can live the lives that WE choose to live, and help each other to make the best of their own abilities and talents. We're going to need every human being to be able to do their best to help save the planet, and to be as fulfilled and content as possible while doing it.
Nothing against UBI as such. Just a warning that in itself it is absolutely not a cure for capitalism.
GhostOnTheHalfShellRE: https://masto.ai/@GhostOnTheHalfShell/116382527232157424
UBI without non-market alternatives to capitalists.
UBI already exist in the United States. It’s lavished on the super wealthy.
The brief summary here is the federal government creates money when it spends money, our taxes delete money. The super rich control gov and they control the magic money machine. They decide spending . They also decide taxes.
They get all the money and aren’t taxed and we get pennies which are taxed. They keep. ours is destroyed.
@minmi Also, where does the money for the UBI •come• from? Presumably the taxpayers, right? In other words, US! Not the billionaires; they RECEIVE money from the government, they don't pay it.
Us. So they will take our money, steal a large chunk of it as they always do, and then give the rest back to us as UBI. And the billionaires, if we don't end them completely, will just keep raising prices again and again.
Billionaires are cancer. As long as they exist, they will continue to kill us all off. I don't understand how anyone can fail to realize that.