hannah aubryRE: https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116352522288234148
The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation. We're addressing this internally. I'm sorry everyone
zivi
⠠⠵ avuko
Jon
Lutin Discret@haubles can you sum it up? The thread is now so long i don't know what you are talking about
A cool crab wearing shades@lutindiscret
@haubles compared fedi's general antipathy towards genAI to driving away black people, admits to trolling for blog material
@haubles compared fedi's general antipathy towards genAI to driving away black people, admits to trolling for blog material
Amoshias
Troed SångbergScott found it problematic that some people on Mastodon pour hate in people's mentions instead of using block/mute.
The ones who want to pour hate didn't like that.
tkissingScott's posts weren't about AI.
The people who want to spend their days pouring hate over AI pretend to not understand that.
@troed @lutindiscret @haubles Well then I'm glad you can read their minds and explain it to me, because I didn't see that.
@tkissing Then maybe you should spend more time reading rather than posting stupid doll takes.
Mrs.Malice ❤️🔥✨@troed awww man troed you should really just block/mute instead of pouring hate buddy
Jens Finkhäuser@mrs_malice badumm-tss 🥁
On the other threads like this make great blocklist sources.
Jessie Nabein 
@troed do you support the use of AI products and services?
@jessienab Are you an AI-hater that will spew hatred in my mentions?
@troed Nope! Goodbye
Patrick H. Lauke@troed @lutindiscret @haubles i particularly enjoyed the take about the entirety of fedi being a #monoculture because of low/no engagement with a specific type of post (on which instance? who knows) compared to the bastion of big tent diversity that are threads and bluesky...
Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm)Lots of folks tried to point out why this didn’t actually make sense, I know I did, it seemed he got himself into a very reactive place emotionally and wasn’t able to understand other perspectives that were being shared.
@stepheneb tbf he became the receiver of exactly the problem he brought up. Pure hatred, voiced out. I'd even claim @Gargron participated with the "puppy killing".
I don’t think that was the initial problem he “thought” he was bringing up. But it sure seemed to become one for him.
And then seemed to be incapable of not digging a deeper and deeper hole.
That’s the part that makes me think he got lost in an emotional whirlpool which sometimes seems to make people think digging in deeper is going to somehow get them to a light at the end of a tunnel.
He indeed intended for the discussion to be around people who go spew hate at others instead of just blocking/muting what they don't like - it's not the first post along those lines.
The AI-haters on Mastodon just couldn't stand that _that_ was the example given - and so they proved Scott's point beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Scott Jenson@troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
The majority of the hate came from people saying I wanted more AI in Mastodon, or I was upset AI wasn't better treated (or whatever) which was exactly NOT what I wanted. I was using AI as an example of intolerance and the discussion became all about AI. (or that "tolerance lets in the nazis")
I'll totally own that my initial post was too vague and made too broad of a point. I'm not going to pretend I was perfect. But if someone started saying you wanted to let nazi's into mastodon, wouldn't you feel compelled to say "uh, no?"
Jeremy@scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
Perhaps you used a very, very bad example since genAI is a highly political issue that ppl feel very strongly about.
Perhaps you used a very, very bad example since genAI is a highly political issue that ppl feel very strongly about.
Morgan ⚧️@troed @jeromio @scottjenson since when are short skirts gaslighting people, convincing teens to commit suicide, operating CSAM vending machines, slurping up the grid so regular people go without access to clean energy, polluting all repositories of human knowledge with misinformation, running fascist propaganda campaigns, and fabricating evidence to imprison and deport people? I'll give you one, their production does exploit cheap labor overseas. But a better comparison would be fur and paint.
@troed @jeromio @scottjenson also I don't know if you've ever been raped before, but most of us I've met who have would *never* compare it to replies where people complain about something we said. That's also something that has happened to me, and turns out it's a lot easier to get over than actual physical/sexual violence!
Your first post was confusing. You included a screenshot of a post by @carnage4life from Jan 5 and said: “but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!”
Why didn’t you quote post that? There was no link to Dare’s original post. I assume there was a thread because in that first post he didn’t seem to be saying anything terribly related to your post.
@stepheneb @troed @lutindiscret My post was confusing. I'm trying to own that. Why didn't I quote post it? I found it on Blusky I think and just screenshot it. Would a link have been better? Of course.
You ended your very first post with what seemed to me as a strange passive aggressive attempt at a guilt trip.
“They aren't coming with examples like this!”
OK, sometimes folks all caught up in their feelings start a thread that way … but I couldn’t see anything in the screenshot of Dare’s post that might have set you off???
And YES, starting a thread like that absolutely requires a quote post.
And you said you got the screenshot from bsky. A link to the thread might have provided more context for the highly emotional way you started the thread. Bsky threads about mastodon can get very snarky. That’s not usually the kind of considered conversation that’s useful to promote policy changes
s1m0n4@scottjenson I can ask you directly then!
@s1m0n4 I have no official role to be able to talk to you about that. What I will say is what has been frequently discussed in Fediform and Bluesky meetings as well: both platforms are losing users. This is just "common wisdom" and should be treated cautiously. It's just what people are saying.
As I’ve said in earlier replies there are many different and overlapping communities on Fediverse and the care I’m taking here to communicate clearly and very specifically to help you is an example of what sometimes happens here.
I don’t see it happening on other social networks. It’s something I value greatly whether I’m participating or not. It’s what I mean by engagement.
@stepheneb
and I hope it's clear that I value your efforts. Much appreciated.
My hypothesis is that 95% of the people on mastodon are amazing and it forms a unique and valued community. My issue is with that remaining 5%. Of course,that may just be a factor of any social network.
But there are enough stories of people being dissuaded that I would still like to explore it further.
@troed @lutindiscret
@scottjenson @stepheneb @troed @lutindiscret
I already from the get-go feel in your 5%. I feel comfortable there.
But sorry that I did not conform to your expectations.
/s
Willem Janssen@scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret I hope you find a UX way to address harassment on Mastodon. It would be very benificial. The AI example was a poor one, as literally everybody knows by now, and it’s a shame if that gets in the way of actual positive change, e.g. for marginalized communities, and ideally imho also for journalists and other asymmetrical or parasocial posters.
(Tl;dr: More minorities and famous people!)
(Tl;dr: More minorities and famous people!)
@Wlm @scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
> I hope you find a UX way to address harassment on Mastodon
I take it you weren't there back in usenet days? Because my experience from back then makes me guess that there is no way to address/police harassment "the UX way".
Gavin@troed @lutindiscret @haubles That’s not actually what happened. Scott was remiss that Mastodon wasn’t full of fascists and AI boosters. The so-called big tent, a dog-whistle for the far right. Mastodon put him right on that.
His big mistake was comparing the racism experienced by black people with that of insufferable AI boosters and fascists. His argument imploded from there really.
@troed @lutindiscret @haubles You’re one of those AI boosters, aren’t you. What would you know about the truth. 🤣
What do you hope to accomplish from posting easily disproven lies in this thread?
@troed @lutindiscret @haubles Dude, you realise Scott spent most of yesterday trying to dig himself out of the hole he created.
It apparently resulted in someone from Mastodon apologising for it. Go bug someone else.
It is you who replied to me with a post filled with lies. Again, what are you trying to accomplish?
@troed @lutindiscret @haubles Just because someone fundamentally disagrees with you, it doesn’t mean they are lying. You could try reading the whole thread. https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116358409926549012
Scott Jenson (@[email protected])
@[email protected] @[email protected] My point is that you should have the feed you want. Follow who you want, block who you want, filter who you want. That is the beauty of the fediverse. What I'm asking for, and I'm a bit shocked that this is controversial, is a 'bigger tent', I'd like lots of voices to be here. I'm NOT endorsing AI in any way. I'm just using it as an example of something most people don't like that should be allowed here. That's what a big tent means. Forget AI, I chose it (unwisely) as a foil. If you kick out AI, you can kick out anyone else. That feels like cultural suicide. YOu can hate something but still fight to the death that it has the right to be here.
marquis de karabas-barabas@gavin57 @troed @lutindiscret @haubles I can’t see that he’s suggesting any of the things you are saying he is when reading the link you provided
@troed @lutindiscret @haubles can you show me where he was talking about harassment rather than a lack of engagement? If we all block and mute, that'll have exactly the effects he seemed to be complaining about ("number go DOWN" for example, or the way the first post is literally about how much engagement someone gets on specific topics and platforms)
Morten FrischScott Jenson (@[email protected])
@[email protected] I agree with everything you're saying. This conversation has become far bigger than I intended. All I wanted was to say "it would be nice if we had a bigger tent" The people that reply "you can just spin up your own instance" are missing a key point: people actively hunt down and harass people they don't like. I *can't* just spin up an instance if I'm getting harassed. And to be clear, his has NOTHING to do with AI. But 'asking people to be nicer' is somehow seen as, I don't know, promoting pedaphila (I was *just* accused of this) It's this toxic misunderstanding, and the need to chase people away that I'm taking issue with. Not your more reasonable "people vs ideas" point (which I agree with)
Piggleston Pecanpants@haubles I'd argue shitposting is not engagement.
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)
Kevin P. Fleming@haubles Let's all hope the day when 'engagement' stops being a thing that social media users care about is sooner than later.
Shadow, First of His Name 
@haubles Mad respect lol
@haubles I would be more interested in knowing whether Gargron's puppy killer post does.
@troed @haubles You mean this one? https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/116352812942715569
You know he’s not actually talking about killing puppies, right? It’s just an example of why you don’t need both sides represented.