hannah aubryRE: https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116352522288234148
The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation. We're addressing this internally. I'm sorry everyone
Lutin Discret@haubles can you sum it up? The thread is now so long i don't know what you are talking about
Troed SångbergScott found it problematic that some people on Mastodon pour hate in people's mentions instead of using block/mute.
The ones who want to pour hate didn't like that.
Patrick H. Lauke@troed @lutindiscret @haubles i particularly enjoyed the take about the entirety of fedi being a #monoculture because of low/no engagement with a specific type of post (on which instance? who knows) compared to the bastion of big tent diversity that are threads and bluesky...
Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm)Lots of folks tried to point out why this didn’t actually make sense, I know I did, it seemed he got himself into a very reactive place emotionally and wasn’t able to understand other perspectives that were being shared.
@stepheneb tbf he became the receiver of exactly the problem he brought up. Pure hatred, voiced out. I'd even claim @Gargron participated with the "puppy killing".
I don’t think that was the initial problem he “thought” he was bringing up. But it sure seemed to become one for him.
And then seemed to be incapable of not digging a deeper and deeper hole.
That’s the part that makes me think he got lost in an emotional whirlpool which sometimes seems to make people think digging in deeper is going to somehow get them to a light at the end of a tunnel.
He indeed intended for the discussion to be around people who go spew hate at others instead of just blocking/muting what they don't like - it's not the first post along those lines.
The AI-haters on Mastodon just couldn't stand that _that_ was the example given - and so they proved Scott's point beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Scott Jenson@troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
The majority of the hate came from people saying I wanted more AI in Mastodon, or I was upset AI wasn't better treated (or whatever) which was exactly NOT what I wanted. I was using AI as an example of intolerance and the discussion became all about AI. (or that "tolerance lets in the nazis")
I'll totally own that my initial post was too vague and made too broad of a point. I'm not going to pretend I was perfect. But if someone started saying you wanted to let nazi's into mastodon, wouldn't you feel compelled to say "uh, no?"
Jeremy@scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
Perhaps you used a very, very bad example since genAI is a highly political issue that ppl feel very strongly about.
Perhaps you used a very, very bad example since genAI is a highly political issue that ppl feel very strongly about.
Morgan ⚧️@troed @jeromio @scottjenson since when are short skirts gaslighting people, convincing teens to commit suicide, operating CSAM vending machines, slurping up the grid so regular people go without access to clean energy, polluting all repositories of human knowledge with misinformation, running fascist propaganda campaigns, and fabricating evidence to imprison and deport people? I'll give you one, their production does exploit cheap labor overseas. But a better comparison would be fur and paint.
@troed @jeromio @scottjenson also I don't know if you've ever been raped before, but most of us I've met who have would *never* compare it to replies where people complain about something we said. That's also something that has happened to me, and turns out it's a lot easier to get over than actual physical/sexual violence!
"she was wearing a short skirt"-argument is a well known construction where blame is laid on the victim for what the perpetrator did. In this context, Scott getting attacked because of what Jeremy considered to be having used "the wrong" example.
Your first post was confusing. You included a screenshot of a post by @carnage4life from Jan 5 and said: “but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!”
Why didn’t you quote post that? There was no link to Dare’s original post. I assume there was a thread because in that first post he didn’t seem to be saying anything terribly related to your post.
@stepheneb @troed @lutindiscret My post was confusing. I'm trying to own that. Why didn't I quote post it? I found it on Blusky I think and just screenshot it. Would a link have been better? Of course.
You ended your very first post with what seemed to me as a strange passive aggressive attempt at a guilt trip.
“They aren't coming with examples like this!”
OK, sometimes folks all caught up in their feelings start a thread that way … but I couldn’t see anything in the screenshot of Dare’s post that might have set you off???
And YES, starting a thread like that absolutely requires a quote post.
And you said you got the screenshot from bsky. A link to the thread might have provided more context for the highly emotional way you started the thread. Bsky threads about mastodon can get very snarky. That’s not usually the kind of considered conversation that’s useful to promote policy changes
s1m0n4@scottjenson I can ask you directly then!
@s1m0n4 I have no official role to be able to talk to you about that. What I will say is what has been frequently discussed in Fediform and Bluesky meetings as well: both platforms are losing users. This is just "common wisdom" and should be treated cautiously. It's just what people are saying.
As I’ve said in earlier replies there are many different and overlapping communities on Fediverse and the care I’m taking here to communicate clearly and very specifically to help you is an example of what sometimes happens here.
I don’t see it happening on other social networks. It’s something I value greatly whether I’m participating or not. It’s what I mean by engagement.
@stepheneb
and I hope it's clear that I value your efforts. Much appreciated.
My hypothesis is that 95% of the people on mastodon are amazing and it forms a unique and valued community. My issue is with that remaining 5%. Of course,that may just be a factor of any social network.
But there are enough stories of people being dissuaded that I would still like to explore it further.
@troed @lutindiscret
Glitzersachen@scottjenson @stepheneb @troed @lutindiscret
I already from the get-go feel in your 5%. I feel comfortable there.
But sorry that I did not conform to your expectations.
/s
Willem Janssen@scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret I hope you find a UX way to address harassment on Mastodon. It would be very benificial. The AI example was a poor one, as literally everybody knows by now, and it’s a shame if that gets in the way of actual positive change, e.g. for marginalized communities, and ideally imho also for journalists and other asymmetrical or parasocial posters.
(Tl;dr: More minorities and famous people!)
(Tl;dr: More minorities and famous people!)
@Wlm @scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
> I hope you find a UX way to address harassment on Mastodon
I take it you weren't there back in usenet days? Because my experience from back then makes me guess that there is no way to address/police harassment "the UX way".
There’s a nasty form of harassment where better architecture could definitely help the community do a better job limiting harassment:
Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm) (@[email protected])
@[email protected] There have been some serious architectural issues that enable harassment which also hides the harassment from others. The details are important but I can only give a flavor (will look for a post that explains it well). Goes something like this: User0 (person about to be harassed) posts. User1 posts racist reply and sets visibility to “followers only”. That actually means followers only plus User0. 1/n @[email protected] @[email protected]