Mastodawn

Dinah 🕊🇺🇦1d ago

Stray Fish/ 野良魚

#artists , I know this is a long shot, but instead of complaining forever I will just ask:
Are there any artists here with #MEcfs #longcovid #fibro or energy limiting illness, or those who are aware what this is like, that know how to practice mark making when essentially almost bedbound?
Because obviously i can't have the "objectively" good posture and do the whole drawing from the arm thing when half lying propped up on pillows, in bed, with my tablet in my lap.
If anyone else has any ideas I welcome them.
My lines (and generally, fundamentals) are shit and I want to change that.
Not sure what to tag, #neisvoid ? #artlearning ?

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 1d ago

Or maybe if anyone knows how to look for someone who might know this?

whim 𓆗 1d ago

@rybson my first thought is the longcovid subreddit since it's very active https://www.reddit.com/r/LongCovid/s/VPRx2caLjo

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 1d ago

@whimwitch ah yeah thanks. I sometimes forget that reddit exists haha

whim 𓆗 1d ago

@rybson honestly, that might be for the best in most cases 🤣 but the covid and illness subreddits have generally not had the same behaviors reddit has been known for and i find them very helpful

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 1d ago

@whimwitch yeah, that is good to know, reddit.. Well, yeah it is reddit.
Thanks.

meriastroa 1d ago

@whimwitch @rybson i personally prefer the /cfs reddit as it's much more fatigue oriented
https://www.reddit.com/r/cfs/

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome / Myalgic Encephalomyelitis • r/cfs

For research, treatments, and personal stories regarding Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS)/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME). ME/CFS is a...

reddit

deer witch 1d ago

@whimwitch While yes discord sucks too, I can provide invites to the long COVID discord which spun off of the Body Politic Slack for anyone who wants. There’s an art channel there of some amazing folks incl ppl more severe than me & in diff mediums.

I’ll answer in depth about my practices & accommodations I use in making my advocacy art @illmarks , and what I advise in my workshops later/soon — Dr appt first !

Thanks for the tags everyone 💜

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 1d ago

@moss @illmarks

I hope your appt goes well! I'd be grateful for the discord invite.

meriastroa 1d ago

@rybson i suspect i have it but i have not thr official diagnosis yet. i'm mostly blocked sitted all day but something just holding a sketchbook or a tablet is too much so i slowly stopped drawing as much i wanted. i know there is glasses you can but on to crochet while keeping your hand straight. it's basically mirrors that show tou whats on your lap. i don't know if if whats you are looking for.

i mostly use my brain when i'm locked in my bed: like writing poetry for myself, singing song in my head ! i have a doc with ideas to try to fight boredom!! let me find it for you

meriastroa 1d ago

@rybson https://theduckopera.medium.com/the-severe-me-bedbound-activity-masterlist-part-1-e61612b7a357

this one is very loong but gives many ideas. for exemple for drawings i found : that you can change the calorimetry of your screen and use a drawing/coloring digital book.

"1. Engage in low energy creativity. Use a colouring app, a cross stitch app, a sketch app, anything that you can do fairly mindlessly but which gives you a sense of satisfaction"

The Bedbound Activity Masterlist: Part 1

A list of 22 things a bedbound person can do to pass the time when lying in their bed unable to move, open their eyes or listen to audio.

Medium

meriastroa 1d ago

@rybson and what i've been trying is instead of having one bad posture that hurts me i change posture every 5-10 min. it's a lot of bad posture but i can move my muscles differently so it doesn't hurt that much compared to staying in the same posture for hours.
for lines, i would chmage the tool for a most forgiving type like crayons or pastels, something that has more texture would mostlikely hide the irregularities.

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 1d ago

@meriastroa thank you so much for your wisdom!!!!

meriastroa 1d ago

@rybson i'm still in process of learning to do things differently and it's so frustrating some times

blobcatsadreach

but i find comfort in talking to fellow people

blobPleadingEyes

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 1d ago

@meriastroa yeah it is a struggle... Doing stuff is already hard, having energy limiting illness on top...well...it sucks

meriastroa 1d ago

Granny Art (Shrimp) (Joni)1d ago

@rybson do you know @illmarks ?

ContraindiKate 1d ago

@rybson @moss and @hari fit this description!

@rybson daughter. Bedridden, horizontal. Can doodle a few minutes on a good day.

She does so in a little drawing book. Using pencils, fineliners, these things.

And she tells me, getting something on paper is key. It may not be all that, but it’s the start and improvement might follow. “Make it exist!”

Her hand, her lines, are (to my eyes) getting better. A distinctive signature style is shaping. Line by line. This seems to work for her, as well as confines allow.

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 1d ago

@js I wish her the best! That is great that she is improving. I think i am, too, i guess i have to learn to be more patient...

ChookMother 🇦🇺🦘1d ago

@rybson Don't know if they're still available but when I was doing digital artwork with worse mecfs than I have now, I used a mouse with the ball on top, so just tiny movements of one finger were needed to do everything. It was liberating.
And I just want to agree with the person who said changing your position every 10-15 mins will help avoid fatigue.

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 1d ago

@anne_twain thanks, that is definitely something i can look into!

@rybson Hi, replying here instead of @moss since I have a longer character count on replies.

I'm going to infodump and mostly via screenshots of slides to start -- I'm sorry that it's less personal, but I think they have a lot of helpful info and I put a lot of time into trying to put my best knowledge into them. I'm ofc happy to answer any questions. It's a special interest.

I'm starting with practical tips & tips more related to digital practice since you mentioned your tablet, but lmk if you're interested in physical mediums too -- I have a LOT of recs for how to manage those in blankets well!

Here's the links from the slides:

https://www.ted.com/talks/phil_hansen_embrace_the_shake

https://trembelingart.com/about-me/

@rybson As others have said, time and practice really do help. I actually hate giving that answer, because I'm very ADHD and I actually struggle to do anything consistently. Ever.

This project is the longest I've stuck with any single project, and even still, I spend months where I don't work on it, and then a week where I draw every day, because that's what works for me and my brain. Maybe your brain is better at daily practice, maybe it isn't.

However, I don't think consistency is what matters the most in new creative skill building, it's resiliency. Which is something we disabled people excel at.

--

I'm including the Taste/Skill Gap quote (if you're not familiar, I can't recommend it enough, I highly suspect that's a bit part of why you're struggling right now). I go through phases with it -- every time I find myself butting up against the taste/skill gap again, that's when I know I'm going through a period of growth and I just have to keep trusting myself to keep *slowly* exploring creatively and to grow the skills and find what's missing for me.

Ira Glass quote as audio/video (if watching video, it has a lot of typographic motion): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91FQKciKfHI

--

If you look at where I started the project:

https://www.illmarks.com/page/9/

vs where I am 2.25 years later, it's *wild*.

https://www.illmarks.com/

that's a lot of time, but I also think I started to see improvements after a couple months .

--

I'm mostly self-taught, but there are a few tools I use (cont)

@rybson Very occasionally, I will do a life drawing practice.

While there are many videos online, I HIGHLY recommend the Line of Action website for people with energy limiting conditions, because you can control your own session length and the flow of images.

https://line-of-action.com/

If you're not familiar with the set up for Life Drawing classes, usually there's a few warm up exercises which are shorter in length, maybe 2 minutes, then 1 minute, sometimes even 30 seconds *SCREM*.

These are meant to be warm ups, and then will make the next few 5 minute drawings feel luxurious in comparison!! After, there's usually longer drawings, 10-15-20 mins, or even longer, where you can really render the model.

CW life drawing is often nude, or semi-nude.

This structure works well for many people with longer energy levels, so what's cool with line of action is you can build your own class set up and see what works for you -- maybe you don't want short warm ups, or maybe you only want to do short poses that day!

--

I also draw from reference a LOT. I have aphantasia, so it's actually really important for me as an artist to learn from noticing things irl.

This is good, because even when i can't draw, I can sometimes tune into my note-taking mind for future drawings -- noticing shapes of trees, human joints, etc.

--

Ok, i think that's all for now, i have to eat. I hope some of this is helpful!! you got this, please reach out anytime w/ Qs, if you want feedback etc

Line of Action

Line of Action

@rybson PS The Disabled Artist Affirmations zine is lovely

Physical: https://www.tnet.store/product-page/disabled-artist-affirmations-physical-zine

Digital: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1679300210/digital-disabled-artist-affirmations

Library: https://wellcomecollection.org/works/m6x6paky

Disabled Artist Affirmations (Physical Zine) | The TNET Store

Disabled Artist Affirmations is a must-have for any disabled artist! Author Birch Rosen writes full-page extrapolations for affirmations grounded in compassion and reality, covering all areas from creating, performing, and even being an audience member. This heartening read is a necessary reminder that one's own creativity, health, and happiness will always be more important than the expectations of others.

The TNET Store

IHateFireworks 1d ago

tysm!
These are awesome resources

@ProcessParsnip yay, glad!!

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 18h ago

@NyxMir thanks, I will have to take my time absorbing that haha, in the spirit of cognitive pacing :D

@rybson absolutely 💜💜💜

Deborah Preuss, pcc 🇨🇦1d ago

@rybson @vlrny Q: what do you want to draw on? Tablet? Paper?

Edit:

Oh, and what media do you want to use? (Pencils, watercolour, marker, or messier stuff? etc).

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 18h ago

@deborahh @vlrny I am doing digital. My struggle is mostly with practicing the fundamentals of mark making. Like, lines that go nicely, clearly from point A to B, and in a confident way. And that flow nicely. I don't think I am very bad at art in general, I just lack the foundational skills, and all "regular" guides and books I found that could help me fix that, assume that a person is sitting and can use their entire arm/shoulder while sitting and drawing. I am lying down with my tablet to save energy.

@rybson
3 years working w/ occupational therapists here. Electric tilting lounge chair made a huge difference. Was able to lap weave before I could write. I am just now regaining enough fine motor to be able to color with pens for short bursts. Drawing needs too much concentration still and that crashes me.
My advice is to set a timer for like 1 minute and see if you can do that daily, or every other day. Spend some weeks there. Increase very slowly so you dont crash.
It sucks! Good luck!

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 18h ago

@ArtseaGardener timers are really life savers. Thanks, and good luck to you too!

riley 🐲🎶15h ago

@rybson mine has never been bad enough that i was bedridden but it's still the reason why i post art so rarely 😅 I mostly draw on real paper and scanning+editing+colouring just takes so much of me that i need to brace myself and make extra time for it. i don't have a mobile tablet and never had the chance to try how it's like to draw on one, but considering how even my nintendo 3ds is a lot for my arms, maybe give paper a shot?

imho, drawing from the arm is overrated for our (fannish) purposes. i mostly draw my little blorbos in sketchbooks and the paper isn't even big enough to allow for that much movement 🤷

re: improving art. I think a lot of it depends on finding tutorials that fit your learning style. e.g. i'm not someone who learns based on vibes (which most ""artsy creative"" people seem to do. i disliked most of my art school teachers for that reason lol). I need to understand the logic behind it, so I usually have to go the extra mile to find tutorials i can actually learn from.

buuut if you need some pointers/gentle critique, hmu ✌️ maybe i can help you get over your current frustration hurdle

ps: i wrote this up before looking up what mark making means

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 11h ago

@dragonlayer thanks so much! Yeah I have a hard time finding learning resources that work.
Arm/shoulder drawing might be overrated, but when I look at some artist's great lineart I just...want to BE them...

riley 🐲🎶11h ago

@rybson not quite sure what particular lineart style you mean, but i promise it can be achieved without big arm movements! (it really just comes into play if your physical canvas is big). and considering you're drawing digitally you can cheat your way out of it anyway by just zooming out of your canvas it's more important to find a brush that clicks with you than range of movement, i promise! (i never understood nibs, i actually ink with brush tips, so i had to find something in csp that was like that)

offer to give you specific pointers still stands! i'm familiar with your art from browsing the local timeline, so I was surprised to see you agonize over lineart when you've been such a prolific painter^^

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 10h ago

@dragonlayer hmm yeah thanks. I will have to experiment with brushes more. And zooming out too.
I don't like how my lines are idk, stiff. And dont go where they should go. My first sketch is chicken scratch , that is okay, but then the next layer...is imprecise, or loses flow. I feel like i should train my brain and hand to know where and how the lines are supposed to be, rather than just wing it

( ... I probably have been painting too much, because I make myself crash way too often. I have to get myself under control hahah)
And as for the lineart style I mean...
I look at pretty much any mangaka or anyone on pixiv and am just. In awe.
I am aiming too high considering my limitations...

riley 🐲🎶9h ago

@rybson the chicken scratch problem instantly reminded me of this post i saved ages ago https://gorillaprutt.tumblr.com/post/144644162806/
oh man, i totally get what you mean by losing the, well, looseness on the next layer. i struggle with this too, even if i know the solution is to just not follow the sketch as rigidly as i do 🥹

oh i get that!! sometimes the siren song of the flow is just too strong 😭 i often plan my workload around crashing the next day when i struggle finding a daily routine

i found the easiest way to imitate a specific style is to copy images to my canvas and look at how the other person did it while actually doing it myself 👀 (something i did on this drawing here https://blorbo.social/@dragonlayer/114280124011756600 )
i don't think you're aiming too high!! i feel like you just haven't internalized the "work smarter not harder" mindset yet. i struggled with that for years because i thought it's cheating to take short cuts, but really, nobody cares that you didn't draw every single brick in a wall in the background 😅

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 9h ago

@dragonlayer thanks so much!!!! your words really made me feel better!!!
Thanks for the link to the exercises, they look bite sized enough for me to be able to wrap my head around them.
And your drawing is awesome

@rybson i'm no artist but do follow a Dutch ME patient who makes all kinds of guides. One is with all kinds of aids. I saw a lying down drawing aid for bed.

Maybe this gives you ideas to make artmaking a but more possible by searching similar
https://levenmetmecvsenpots.wixsite.com/blog/about-9

Hulpmiddelen | My Site

My Site

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 11h ago

@Frieke72 thanks so much!

Joan Albright 12h ago

@rybson Mine is not nearly that bad, and I don't art much anymore, but I have been able to reduce my general arm strain by using a foam wrist rest and a 16-button gaming mouse with the settings configured so I barely have to move my hand to move the cursor around. The biggest thing about the gaming mouse (mine is Redragon) is that the back end of the mouse is large enough to rest my palm on. Hope this info helps someone.

Stray Fish/ 野良魚 11h ago

@Lironah I never knew such a mouse existed, thanks for sharing!