Why after avoiding Apple for decades, I'm buying the new Apple Neo

I have been almost entirely in the #Google ecosystem since the dawn of Google, and in fact bought my first Android phone the first day the first Android phone (the venerable G1 with the slide-out keyboard, which I still have and still boots, though with an open source OS version) became available. All my smartphones since then have been Android -- I don't expect that to change.

Other than the single purchase of a tiny iPod Nano long ago, I have avoided #Apple hardware due (among other things) to its typically outrageous pricing and lack of competition in the hardware manufacturing space.

In fact, I made an anti-Apple decision long, long ago, when I chose to work with the 8080/Z80 CPU microcomputers rather than the 68000 series CPUs that Apple chose for its early Macintosh and Lisa lines.

Of course my main work over the decades has been with UNIX/Linux, my servers are and have always run these, and my primary desktops are Linux as well. There are also a number of Chromebooks, Android tablets, Android/Google based TV devices, and some Windows systems for compatibility with needed Windows apps. There more stuff of course but you get the idea.

Along the way I've frequently been asked about issues related specifically to Apple iOS and MACs, and I have simply replied that I don't have expertise with those.

So I've long been aware of this gap, but couldn't justify the expense of any Apple hardware simply for the purpose of filling that gap.

Two events have changed this a bit. First it's clear that both Google and Apple have been moving with notable speed ever farther into the Dark Side, with their billionaire CEOs embracing fascist Trump and seemingly everything evil that he represents.

This creates an interesting dynamic, if one feels that purely open source systems cannot completely fulfill one's required hardware and software needs. In essence, the question becomes is it better to deal mainly with a single Evil Big Tech firm, or split your needs in some respects across two of them (or three, if we include Windows requirements and Microsoft).

For now I view the "split" as the most practical choice -- for me, anyway -- and the new Apple #Neo (whose macOS runs a largely usable UNIX under the hood) represents what seems to be the most cost effective current path to this (it does appear to be a disruptive design in terms of capabilities and pricing, that may give Google's Chromebooks a run for their money, especially in the educational space).

Anyway, just thought I'd mention all this -- more than you wanted to know, of course.

Best,

L

One notable aspect of the Neo that I will admit is very impressive is how fixable it is, especially in terms of battery replacement. A bunch of screws to remove to get the bottom off and reach the battery, but NO ADHESIVE or other impediments to just popping out the battery and throwing in a new one. In 2026, that's bizarre in a very good way.

@lauren

They figure that with the memory and storage untouchable there's enough built-in obsolescence for now.

@resuna I saw a video that appears to show the replacement of the existing SSD with a 1TB version. It required soldering, etc. skills that are outside my soldering comfort zone, definitely. And some specialized tools. I think a big concern would be disrupting the heat management, since there's no fan.
MacBook Neo Is the Most Repairable MacBook in 14 Years

Is Apple’s most affordable laptop ever also one of its most repairable? We’re loving the screwed-in battery.

iFixit

@PeterLudemann @lauren

That's not saying much. I once had a Powermac 8100. It was impossible to open the case without breaking at least one critical fragile latch. And it wasn't even a laptop.

@lauren I assume they're just trying to stay ahead of the upcoming EU regulation on repairability and harvest a bit of Karma before it becomes mandatory..
@WooShell That seems likely. Whatever the reason, it's still a surprise at this juncture.
@lauren It definitely was unexpected and is highly appreciated.
@WooShell @lauren @nm Apple saves itself a lot of money when they make their devices easier to repair because it is also easier for them. Not cramming the case with battery and features makes repair easier because it minimizes the need for glue.

@lauren There are big issues with macOS 26 as a UNIX, but it's less terrible than Android or Windows. Meanwhile, a lot of the bad stuff can be fixed—in the terminal, anyway—by installing iTerm2 (terminal replacement) and Homebrew. Just remember to turn off the ghastly Apple Intelligence bullshit in System Settings!

https://iterm2.com

https://brew.sh

iTerm2 - macOS Terminal Replacement

iTerm2 is a replacement for Terminal and the successor to iTerm

@cstross Yeah, for sure about Apple "intelligence". I was already looking at Homebrew as the MAC equivalent of the Linux apt repositories. Thanks for mentioning iTerm2, which I assume does all the normal terminal emulation and ssh stuff and such. Tnx. -L
@lauren Using a Mac without Homebrew is a non-starter, full stop. It can be tetchy at times, but having access to things like a modern Python interpreter, an S3 command line, wget, ffmpeg, etc., is a necessity. I don't share @cstross dislike of the Terminal app so I can't speak to what iTerm2 offers in lieu, but macOS is definitely a way better *nix than any of the also-rans out there.

@lauren iTerm2 is a much better terminal emulator than the one that comes with macOS. (But again: you'll want to disable the AI misfeatures before use.)

Homebrew is roughly equivalent to an apt repository, but does everything it's own way. It's also the best way to get a decent text editor on macOS (the built-in vi is ancient and TextEdit is … well, it works, but that's not saying much).

@cstross @lauren I use iTerm2—it's much better than the built-in terminal emulator—but they've been cluttering it up with all kinds of crap, enough that I'm wondering about looking for a replacement.
@SteveBellovin @cstross @lauren Ditto. It’s the best terminal emulator I've found for macOS thus far, but I agree that it seems to be getting bogged down with new crap. The AI nonsense really got me thinking about looking for something new.. Fortunately, it was added but isn't in your face like other apps. In fact, I'm not even sure how to turn it on at this point as I never wanted to use it.
@XenoPhage @SteveBellovin @cstross @lauren I have been happy with WezTerm. Seems much lighter and has everything I personally need. Your mileage and all that. It hasn’t been updated in a while I think but I don’t consider that a downside if I’m honest.

@SteveBellovin
To be honest, MacOS UX, Homebrew, and iTerm have all sharply degraded recently. I’m not sure if there’s any avoiding the onslaught of cognitive debt being served by genAI.

@cstross @lauren

@suzannealdrich @SteveBellovin @lauren

I notice even vim and neovim have gotten AI slop all over their repos. As has systemd for Linux. It's a ghastly travesty.

@cstross @suzannealdrich @SteveBellovin It's going to be quite the spectacle as it all comes crashing down. Plot treatment in the works.
@suzannealdrich @SteveBellovin @cstross It's all going to be relative, of course.
@SteveBellovin @cstross @lauren I’ve been using iTerm2 for about 6 years and I do very much like it.
@SteveBellovin @cstross @lauren I am a very happy user of Ghostty on macOS
@cstross @lauren I never had good luck with homebrew and I feel it clutters up the system. I prefer using containers for stuff like this if I can, but my use cases are likely very different from most others.
@XenoPhage @cstross Which containorized environment do you prefer for macOS? On Linux I deal with a whole slew of them (with flatpak being my current favorite, which I would not expect to run on the Neo).
@lauren @cstross I'm just using docker. It works well for my use cases.
@XenoPhage @cstross Yeah, have used it quite a bit on Linux. Thanks.
@lauren @cstross The only real gotcha I've seen (and haven't run into in a bit now) is that macOS runs on ARM now so there has to be an ARM container available. It's been a while since I've run into that, but it does happen from time to time.
@XenoPhage @cstross Right, yeah, of course x86 won't work (unemulated, anyway).
@lauren @XenoPhage @cstross What about Podman instead of Docker? Rootless by default and daemonless. It's pretty much a drop in replacement as far as commands and compose files go.
@jmorris @lauren @cstross I mean, that would work too. I haven't tried podman on a mac. Installing docker is just a package download and install. Podman, when I first looked at it (which was quite a while ago at this point) was more complicated and I couldn’t be bothered.
@cstross @lauren iTerm2 comes with “AI” stuff?!?
@AnachronistJohn @lauren @cstross It can optionally do AI stuff, it's disabled by default.
@rpluim @AnachronistJohn @cstross I am attempting to visualize the use cases that would really want AI for a terminal emulation app, so far without much success.
@lauren @AnachronistJohn @cstross I've never used the AI stuff, but it appears to allow sending the contents of your terminal to an AI chat, and have it then do stuff in response. I'm sure someone thinks it's useful

@lauren @AnachronistJohn @cstross It get better:
- write files
- run commands
- *interact with a browser window*

No way I'm ever turning that on

@rpluim @AnachronistJohn @cstross I don't think I'd even want the capability in something on my machine, enabled or not.
@rpluim @lauren @AnachronistJohn There's a setting to toggle off all AI misfeatures. Guess how I've got mine set up. I dare you.
@lauren @cstross There's also alacritty, kitty, wezterm, and probably more, that support macOS and Linux.
@cstross Very useful notes, thanks!
@lauren I'm thought about this when the time comes. Have you already made the purchase or would you consider buying something with native Linux support?
@McNeely I've got old laptops that I pushed Linux onto over the years, so if i need a Linux laptop I have them. But the primary use case for this is to have a modern macOS system that I can refer to as various issues arise that invoke the Apple ecosystem. Purchase is imminent, probably today or tomorrow.
@lauren @McNeely UTM allows you to virtualize MacOS on a Mac. In case you wanted to test things out without risking needing to reinstall.
@lauren
> Apple Neo
I'd recommend buying used/refurbished MBP instead. A bit more bucks, it will last longer. There is now quite a number of of M1 pros phased out because "Apple Intelligence is much restricted". Most important thing is these beefy 16" come starting at 32GB, most being 64GB. I doubt docker would usefully run on 4GB box.
@lauren You may want to install the GNU utilities because the BSD ones are a bit minimalist. I think I used homebrew or macports ... I had a work Mac and I found it annoyingly slightly different from Unix/Linux, even though I understood why Apple had deviated from the "standard" way of doing things. (I now mostly use a fairly beefy Chromebook with a Linux subsystem)
@PeterLudemann Yeah, GNU utilities are a good idea. I also have a pretty nice (quite large screen) Chromebook (approaching EOL, thanks a bunch Google) and I've used the Linux subsystem a lot and of course it works with standard apt since it's Debian. But it does have issues when it comes to lack of flexibility dealing with USB and other oddities. I've actually run fairly complicated flatpaks on it, but one annoyance is that the startup time for the subsystem (to get a shell prompt) is, well, annoying. I've had to go through some pretty complicated bash scripts and such to make things work the way I really want to. I'll have to figure out how to integrated the Neo into my network -- I use sshfs extensively.
@lauren Yeah, the startup time of the Linux subsystem is annoying (and Debian is rather conservative in its update policy, so I have to build a number of apps by hand). But the integration is pretty good - I can run X-based apps with cut&paste working almost all the time (e.g., emacs).
But for me, the big advantage of the ChromeBook is that it lets me do a remote wipe if I lose it while travelling.
@PeterLudemann Understood. I've run major 3D printer slicing apps (flatpak) on my Chromebook, and once it's running it's fine, but the startup time for the subsystem and the app are pretty annoying. Remote wiping is not a priority issue for me since I really don't travel anywhere anymore. I'm not sufficiently masochistic to want to deal with airports or airlines ever again if I can help it.

@lauren

One mildly shocking thing when going though the Welcome/setup process is you can actually say no to things; create a standard local user account, and turn off most everything right off the bat, and if you decide you want to turn stuff on later you can.

I did this recently with a Mac Mini I got for ham radio. It has no ties into Apple eco-system, just a local account. Homebrew or just downloading directly any other software I need.

I even installed UTM to run a Windows 11 ARM vm for the one win app for my Kenwood radio. Then I disabled the network adapter after I got it setup, and it just uses a USB-serial adapter to control the radio DB9 serial port, then the Mac mini uses a separate USB connection to also control it as well. Works a great without having to do any Wine hassle or virtual serial port splitting...

@pauliehedron I was looking at some of the options to run specific Windows apps. There are a few I'd like to put on there if the storage overhead isn't too high (noting it will have 512G minus system, etc.). Part of the reason I ordered the unit with the 512 rather than 256G memory.

@lauren If the win apps are .net, running a windows 11 arm VM is really smooth with UTM. If you need graphics performance, Parallels seems to be the goto.

I also use Crossover on my M1 Studio for the couple games where I wanted a commercial version of Wine, though now that Star Wars the Old Republic has a native Mac launcher, I haven't needed it as much.

@pauliehedron Is the Parallels base version (one time fee, not subscription) actually useful?

@lauren I haven't owned in a while (last version I bought was 11), but I recall they have a pay per version or annual subscription options.

I found UTM fits my needs for VMs. https://github.com/utmapp/UTM

I don't have a need for containers on Mac (I use https://distrobox.it on Linux extensively though!) but I do want to try out this sometime, the demos were pretty slick, without the overhead of docker: https://github.com/apple/container

Edit: I also forgot that UTM also supports the native Apple virtualization framework, so can virtualize MacOS as well natively so your potential experiments in the Eco-system can be separate from your regular host. Just a wonderful piece of kit. 

GitHub - utmapp/UTM: Virtual machines for iOS and macOS

Virtual machines for iOS and macOS. Contribute to utmapp/UTM development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub
@lauren I've avoided Apple products since they discontinued the Apple ][ line. But your piece has me rethinking this. It would not be my daily driver, but at that price I'm considering it, especially if it gets good iFixit scores.
@agreeable_landfall I saw the iFixit guy's video on this. He was pretty awed. Literally to get the battery it's just a matter of removing a bunch of screws (a lot of them, but they're just screws), disconnecting a few cables, and the battery lifts right out. It has a thin metal frame around it, at this point it isn't clear if a replacement would include a new frame or not. It also appears that replacement of speakers, keyboard, etc. would be straightforward. The electronics are all on one narrow board at the top. I saw a video last night that apparently shows someone replacing the SSD with a 1TB version. It looked legit, but required skills and tools that are rather specialized, to say the least.
@lauren I refuse to use Windows as a daily driver, even though I only use as browser and ssh (and thus a terminal emulator). They do dumb things like break printing and booting with random updates, taking months to unfix the updates.
I ssh and do everything remotely.
I do use ChromeOS x86 on old laptops, but again strictly as a terminal.
Work only offers mac or win, but there are people who wipe and install Ubuntu. Mac is still a win for me there, because video, Bluetooth, accessories just work.