maxMar 17
deer witch

RE: https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@yurisizov/116240441023829664

Your reminder that realism is not a universal creative goal. In fact, realism is rarely the most important art goal, even when it hits the list.

Anyone telling you a machine’s realism matters more than human agency and human choices in creation doesn’t understand what they’re working (read: fucking) with.

This is soul crushing.

Mar 16 at 9:58pmWeb
Show threaddeer witchMar 16

Even in successful games I consider realism umbrella, like the sequels of Horizon Zero Dawn and Death Stranding, a few of the things that matter far, far more than realism:

- intentionally making the design choices together to create a cohesive world & increase immersion

- colors & sounds & textures which give us a sense of emotion and connection to the story & characters

- choices which **are** unrealistic , making worlds different enough than ours, places we want to explore and escape to

Show threadChaddicusMar 17
@moss I would argue that the realism achieved by these games is heightened and made successful by the intentional choices they make to break realism. My mind is particularly brought to the wind changing direction to help your player character in Ghost of Tsushima - while I didn't find that game particularly compelling because of its combat, I loved how it implemented that specific mechanic.
Show threaddeer witchMar 17

@wombatpandaa Yes! I also loved that mechanic, as well as the more cinematography-like haiku sections.

I played it when I was mostly house bound so being able to go find onsens and explore shrines meant a lot then, and I liked creating silly outfits for my character…

but I was playing Yōtei & it lacks a lot of the themed areas imo in favor of even more realism & it’s less memorable to me. Less “wow this forest is all red/purple/gold” moments. I put it on pause cause I was getting bored

Show threadsport of sacred spherical cowsMar 17

@moss

Am reminded of Jacob Geller's essay "Bad Graphics".

Show threadGallus LuchnosMar 16

@moss when I think of my all time favorite video games list, most of them look like what I suspect most gamers would call "unplayably bad".

Sometimes that was tech limitations and sometimes it was deliberate stylization, but tellingly, those decisions did not make the game any worse.

More tellingly, there is very little on the list that was a "last five years" release and NOTHING has made me crave more frames, polygons, or rayshading...

Show threaddeer witchMar 16

@GallusLuchnos my partner has similar taste to you! 💜

I like a mix of games, but I always remember most the games with unique creative style. Gris, Hades 1/2 (and Transistor), and Splatoon 2 were each favs for a while.

Horizon series has a big spot in my heart, but I feels like its realism is the thing about it I’m most meh on? 🤔

(Sayonara Wild Hearts I loooove the aesthetics of but I’m bad at & wish I could adjust modes for a better exp 😂 )

Show threadGallus LuchnosMar 16

@moss yeah I mean there are "newer" games I like that attempt realism. I enjoyed CP2077, RDR2, Satisfactory is fun, etc etc.

But I suspect if those games were still made even if we never invented some of these super high polygon engines, they would still have been "good".

Some studios still know this. The Octopath games are a great example of how the old art can be modernized without needing a computer that can simulate the whole milky way in part *because* high artistry allows you to do things efficiently.

This is part of what was lost as Moore's Law went asymptotic right before it stalled: "more compute" was briefly always a solution for the current gen of developers.

Not to go full old man about it, but back in the day when CDs,DVDs, and cartridge ROMs drove gaming, there was an incentive to avoid bloat. Now, throwing 90gb of texture files into 30 hours of gameplay is considered "top tier" and its your fault as a player if you can't find room for it all.

The indy devs are keeping alive a skillset almost extinct in the big studios.

Show threadColorblind CowboyMar 16

@moss @yurisizov It’s interesting, now that you mention it. Visual art reached for realism and then mostly fled to abstraction (even photorealism didn’t try for actual realism).

Maybe video games will do likewise, but we are just stuck in the illusionistic phase.

Show threaddeer witchMar 16

@colorblindcowboy @yurisizov

I suspect there will be a desire for more “unrealistic” fun, daring creative digital experiences, and a desire for more physical/tangible irl experiences as computer capabilities scale.

My hope as someone who has worked in both theme park & game designs is we’ll use irl & digital for their unique strengths.

Dig doesn’t have as many real limits— let’s make “impossible” things to experience. Spec fiction. Alters.
Use phys for sensory immersion & tangible connections

Show threadCrovanianMar 16
@moss being a theme park designer sounds pretty neat
Show threadsir drawsalot is tired™Mar 16

@moss well said 👏

Even if it is the ultimate goal, realistic imagery still requires a surprising amount of design and stylistic intent in order to look convincing. It's so much more than just proportions, or texture resolution, or subsurface processing or w/e... imo, photorealism without a touch of design to it is just a poor, disorganized, uncanny attempt at mimicking photography, and audiences can tell something's off with it even if they can't quite put a finger on it

Show threaddeer witchMar 17

@ringlov yes!! the "uncanny valley" is REAL and I worry people will be sick of it very, very fast with shoehorned AI, but companies will just take that as "oh we must try harder to replace artists!" not "this isn't what people want"

Anyone remember Polar Express backlash? Humans HATE not-quite-right realism

Show threadsir drawsalot is tired™Mar 17
@moss yessss, I totally forgot about the Polar Express backlash... I still have a perhaps delusional hope that it'll work out for us, because the audiences they're targeting will inevitably reject all this. I don't have much to support that except that people want to connect with people, not machines, so they will learn to seek out games and stories more obviously made by people...
Show threaddeer witchMar 17
@ringlov I hope so too!!! I have to believe ✨
Show threadTired SpongeMar 17

@moss What a load of shit🤮 so glad I switched to AMD with my new computer.

Fuck Nvidia and fuck whatever horse shit this is.

Honestly, the only thing that's keeping me current with gaming is indie stuff. And even a lot of that is starting to be infected with AI.

Show threadBrian DearMar 17

@moss

This is one thing I talked about in my book. On the PLATO system in the 70s and 80s, sure, you had hundreds of multiplayer graphical games to play, incl some the world’s first first-person shooter games. But the limitations of the graphics, the constraints, proved to be an *advantage*: they *engaged* the minds of players, who easily and readily filled in the game situations and locales via *imagination*. Since the 90s, reliance on imagination has all but disappeared. BIG mistake imho.

Show threadjoseMar 17
@moss totally agree - yesterday I purchased pasta with AI as vitamin 😅
Show threadJulianWgsMar 17
@moss Most movies are also photorealistic, but still have their own look and feel. Also there are people in film taking care of lighting even though it usually already there in some form. I agree realism should not be a goal in of itself, but those games in the demo didn‘t look realistic in the sense you could mistaken them for reality. They may be could be mistaken for shots in a movie, but that‘s also an art form which is not better or worse than games and people dedicate their lifes to make them look as they do. On other hand AI is consuming a lot of resources and is biild on top of stolen art.
Show threaddeer witchMar 17

@JulianWgs I'm not sure I follow you entirely? I have a BFA in lighting design so I understand the importance of light in film for contributing to cinematography.

A key diff in your comparison (if I'm understanding) is film choices are made by the team of skilled creative & technical professionals working on them. This is a computer company editing things w/o consent.

I agree on the last point, I'm very anti-AI as theft from creatives, resource drain, and its harm on the humans who work on it.

Show threadJulianWgs6d ago
@moss Thanks for your response. My argument is that there already was a lighting artist creating the lighting of the original image and setting the tone. The AI merely makes it more photorealistic (like in a movie). I don’t think a badly lit game with no artistic direction will really improve with this technique.
I didn‘t follow the announcement, but usually Nvidia does not develop things without the game developers being involved, but I might be wrong here.
Show threadYpsilenna GloomvaleMar 17
@moss One thing I like about playing video game characters is that their art style allows me to create/experience unique designs that mostly wouldn't be possible in real life.
Making game models this realistic makes them look like the people I pass on the streets every day rather than something whimsical.
Show threadTerrMar 17
I don't see what you mean, the DLSS 5 version look genuinely better!
Show threadJeltron6d ago
@moss As an artist it is funny to me that the more it altered something from the original the worse it got.
Show threadCrest of Light6d ago

@moss Ugh, This is AI Slop Lookscursing filter will hopefully be a temporary phase in game aesthetics...

As this Slop filter makes games look so ugly, uncanny, and honestly the women characters look like they've been overworked and in need of a nap. Like they've carried civilization on their shoulders with all the unpaid labor they've been subjected too...

Anyway, I agree with you on your thoughts. Even as a layperson who enjoys fanciful and unique gaming aesthetics; I can't see any beauty in the DLSS 5 AI Slop Lookscursing filter.