outofcreativity
David Penfold 
Kevin Karhan 
@davep SO FECKING TRUE!!!
Ranks@davep its science, not religion
Arg à meudonPersonally, though I understand the basic theories behind climate change, I also need to trust the whole community of scientists that did all the measurements that confirmed the theories. That trust is a kind of belief, I'd say. Rather than believe that there is a very improbable conspiration from thousands of scientists around the world.
iwein@arg There is a profound difference between science and dogma: science challenges you to prove it wrong; dogma implores you not to question it.
Trust in science is not a kind of belief, it's just laziness, which we happily share by the way.
Ariaflame@arg Extremely improbable. Consilience is a good word. Lots of different data points leading to the same conclusion. Even if one of those data points doesn't quite pan out, it doesn't affect the rest.
Joel at Seldon Crisis@davep This is just excellent framing.
RRB@davep Do you believe in arithmetic? How about reading?
Horror Author Reed Alexander@davep
Honestly, at this point, neither approach is going to work. By now, everyone has decided, very few will be swayed either way, and we basically have to rely on the youth to save us.
Honestly, at this point, neither approach is going to work. By now, everyone has decided, very few will be swayed either way, and we basically have to rely on the youth to save us.
@ReedsHorror You may be right 😳
Danni Storm@ReedsHorror @davep I sure hope the youth outside of the US are not right wing social media zombies because the youth vote in the US is a major factor the orange Turd Almighty is currently sitting on his shit throne. The guy who inspired the successful targetting of youth votes might be dead (murder is bad but sometimes I shed 0 tears over it) but the alt right youth brainwashing machine is still running.
FreediverX@davep
Stop giving them the benefit of the doubt by assuming it's a question of understanding when it's actually about corruption and a flagrant disregard for future generations.
Stop giving them the benefit of the doubt by assuming it's a question of understanding when it's actually about corruption and a flagrant disregard for future generations.
Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑@freediverx @davep nah, a lot of them actually don't believe in it. Blaming corruption when an equally large part is religion enforcing anti-science dogma is wrong.
Secular people always forget that religious beliefs actually are as true as science to a lot of modern people.
Joy Aliza Denebeim@WhyNotZoidberg @davep
Some of their followers, maybe. But I'm convinced everyone on Capitol Hill is well aware of the facts re: climate change, notwithstanding their public positions.
Some of their followers, maybe. But I'm convinced everyone on Capitol Hill is well aware of the facts re: climate change, notwithstanding their public positions.
HTPC NZ@davep by making kids believe in things that are fake, some (it's a statistical probability) unfortunately grow believing in things that are fake as real, even when irrefutable evidence against is right front of their eyes, like a rapist felon is the second coming of their never existed son of a sky fairy or whatever... if bringing joy to a kid is making them believe in something fake that condition them to cause misery to many later, is there really a point?
@htpcnz I'm not sure how bringing joy to a kid has anything to do with climate science, to be honest.
Bee O'Problem 
@davep @htpcnz I think the point is raising people in organized religion based on faith in the supernatural without evidence primes them to be willing to believe objective falsehoods without evidence.
This is especially visible if the religious beliefs themselves contract real world evidence (e.g. young earth creationism, predetermined gender roles, "normal" sexuality etc)
@beeoproblem @davep @htpcnz At least with Santa there is a point in a child's life where they learn that it isn't true. And this is a very good lesson in that you can't just take people's word on things that don't make sense. On climate change however there is a lot of evidence from various different methods of analysis and fundamental physics demonstrating how it is a good explanation for why the Earth is getting hotter.
xs4me2@davep This indeed… 👆
smxi@davep while they won't admit error, can't do systems thinking, they can do ok with direct firsthand experience. When it's too late. You'll recall that the US right sector got scared by all the 60s educated protesters, and started on long term effort to undermine education wherever possible. Reagan came to power's attention by his willingness to do that as governer of California. Climate science requires concepts not taught/learned in homeschooling or 'christian' (sic) colleges. Physics is hard
patcanfield@davep It is evident the standards required to Become a Journalist by (apparently) every Journalism College have gone Very Low. It's become the (for failing students) the last, best hope. Of Course, since dropping the "Fairness Doctrine' the FCC has opened This door!
@patcanfield @davep I could be misremembering but wasn't journalism something that was a common major for jocks, socialites and party animals? And/or communication?
@beeoproblem @davep Depends on how much you remember(your age)--Huntley/Brinkley, Cronkite, Murrow!--seems anymore Journalism schools don't teach about Integrity and the importance of Informing the Public about what they Need to Know--only selling their media
Art-X@davep
At this point they need to be asked what they're going to do about it.
At this point they need to be asked what they're going to do about it.
cowvin@davep Yes, it's really annoying how right-wingers try to make everything into a matter of opinion.
ideaPDish@davep @TheValorieClark
I live with a career ecologist and she endorses your message with a big nod.
derptron@davep The ones that say, "Yes, completely," you know are deniers?
@crazyeddie It's just the whole concept of treating the scientific process as somehow faith-based that gets me.
@davep It is though. I like how Dennett put it in Breaking The Spell when he explains how actually scientists have WAAAAY stronger faith than so called "believers". On the one hand you have people who will sit on a bomb and ride it into space because they trust the science behind it--on the other you have a guy who swears up and down homosexuals will burn in hell and should be executed and then you find him snorting coke off a gay prostitute's ass. Faith in science is when rubber meets road.
@crazyeddie @davep that seems to conflate two very different senses of the word "faith" on my read. That smells like an argument made in bad faith, no pun intended.
Or at least it's not one that would lead to useful conclusions since it hinges more on semantics of the word "faith" than anything particularly relevant regarding use of evidence based practice versus faith based.
@beeoproblem @davep If you say so. On the other hand you can look at how it's defined by at least Christians in Hebrews 11:1. "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."
Buzz Aldrin was not an engineer. He didn't know the math and other nonsense needed to actually fly to the moon. He trusted (had faith) that those who made the rocket did, did their jobs well, and he wasn't just going to instantly die. It's faith religion claims but can't deliver.
You just repeated the same argument you made earlier. This comes off more like trying to play semantic games to produce a clever "gotcha" than to advance toward a conclusion beyond childish nihilism.
David W. Jones@davep
And ask them what they will do about it. Climate change is coming for them, too!
And ask them what they will do about it. Climate change is coming for them, too!
Wayne Ruple@davep Sadly we live in a country where at least 50 percent dont believe in science and surprisingly a high percentage never finished high school
Luis FierroWell, Trump just confirmed he DOES NOT understand climate change. At all!
Good Point
Ivaalo@davep And mostly if they will act against climate change
I am Jack's Lost 404
fluids_guru@davep I often use the phrase 'do they accept the science'
IIVQ@davep My sister studied at what was formerly known as an agricultural university (now "life sciences") and a lot of farmer's children, sometimes deeply religious, attend it. In the class where the evolution theory was taught, the professor told them "You may privately beleive god created the earth, but in this school we teach evolution, and you will fail if you don't adhere to it." A few people left the class, and were never seen again.
Phil Thane ✅
Phil Stevens 
@davep Go one better. Ask them what substantive things they intend to do about it.
Nini@davep Many people are paid handsomely to believe in something even if they don't understand it. Sometimes their payment are dependant on not understanding it.
Stefan Scholl@davep so I don’t need to study for years to understand it?
@Stefan_S_from_H I think understanding the scientific method itself goes a long way.
Carmen Zedler@davep #deutschland und seine #politikerInnen führen den #klimawandel immer noch als (fundamentalistischen) Glaubenskrieg.
#Soder #merz #cdu #csu #grunenbashing #privilegien #fdp
#Soder #merz #cdu #csu #grunenbashing #privilegien #fdp
Tristan Colgate-McFarlane@davep I prefer to hear them say outright that they're an idiot. "Understand" is ambiguous, they might "understand" it as a woke conspiracy theory.
If someone doesn't believe in climate change I can judge them the same way I would if they say they believe the earth is 3 thousand years old, or flat, or that Santa flies around dropping free presents down chimneys.
Let people be idiots. Makes them easier to spot
If someone doesn't believe in climate change I can judge them the same way I would if they say they believe the earth is 3 thousand years old, or flat, or that Santa flies around dropping free presents down chimneys.
Let people be idiots. Makes them easier to spot
66gardeners@davep
How about asking, "Do you think pollution is real"?
How about asking, "Do you think pollution is real"?
Estarriol, Terrorist Dragonor.... @If they believe in climate denial?'
CGdoppelpunktThe problem is, for average US-Americans "I firmly believe" is more trustworthy a statement than "Science has shown".
Lyle Solla-Yates@davep as we face more and more of the consequences of global warming including fire, floods, and food insecurity, what steps need to be taken to protect the public?
@Lyle
At an individual level there's not a huge amount we can do without political will, but reduction in meat-eating is probably the easiest quick win.
At an individual level there's not a huge amount we can do without political will, but reduction in meat-eating is probably the easiest quick win.
@Lyle I personally also plant walnuts and chestnuts as a perennial food source for future generations with basically no carbon footprint (along with solar panels, storage, heat pump, electric car etc).
Maj - 🇨🇦
SofiaYes. This. But further…
We should all stop *believing* in anything!
If you 'believe' something, even if it's true, you can just as easily un-believe and believe something else.
I don't believe in democracy. Churchill said it's the worst form of government except for all the others. I accept that analysis, therefore I am 'in favour' of democracy
The scientific evidence points to climate change. I accept the #science, therefore I 'acknowledge' climate change