Axol OtleonFeb 10
Ben Lockwood (broadly defined)
I’ve said it before, but it needs repeating: We already have all the knowledge and technology we need to make an ecological society. It is our political and economic structures that prevent it. The quest for unlimited growth and accumulation exploits both people and our environment.
Feb 10 at 1:34pmWeb
Show threadJeff CFeb 10

@benlockwood
It's our sociology as well; we seem to be both supporters and victims of an advertising-driven consumption and growth philosophy. Cradle to grave planning and circular economies don't seem to get much support from the common folk.

#climatechange #climate

Show threadCaptain Jack SparrowFeb 11

@JeffC1956 @benlockwood

we also have a global political system that tolerates genocide a a means of controlling the supply of "useful" resources, and a lobby system that maintains the fossil fuel industry

Show threadDave DeeFeb 10

@benlockwood there are still those that believe that we are on a path to let technology work for us towards an era of abundance.

I use the example that malaria could be cured already if humankind would want it.

We are not on a path of abundance for the people of the world.

Show threadBill TschumyFeb 10

@benlockwood I agree with your sentiment but not necessarily with the facts. For example, we don’t have the technology to make cement without using fossil fuels. Same for metals needed for electrification. All our large machinery runs on diesel fuels and there is no technology to electrify them.

We do have the technology to do better than we currently are but it is not clear if that will be good enough.

Show threadBen Lockwood (broadly defined)Feb 10
@btschumy you’re ignoring the knowledge half of the equation, where already know what levels of development are sustainable. So yes we have what we need already
Show threadBill TschumyFeb 10

@benlockwood Not sure I understand. It seems to me that knowledge of what is needed without the technology to accomplish it is not that useful. It is a start though.

I don’t even think we really know what levels are sustainable. We have guesses but all we really know is that current levels are most certainly not sustainable.

Show threadDreyFeb 10
@btschumy @benlockwood - How true. The Dooms Day clock show globally very close to the apex. If Global warming continues the clock cannot be reversed. Are we stuck with the dangers of Fossil Fuel. Who knows.
Show threadaustralopithecusFeb 10

@btschumy @benlockwood
We absolutely do have the technology for those things already, it would just be "more expensive" in the sense that the long-term costs of fossil fuels are all externalized.

There are certainly a few things we don't have the technology for yet, but mostly in synthetic chemistry, and the amount of fossil fuels used for that is a tiny fraction of global consumption.

The hardest problem would be weaning off of industrial agriculture.

Show threadBill TschumyFeb 10
@australopithecus @benlockwood We might have the technology “in the lab” but we don’t have it at scale. To ramp up would be very expensive (as you said) but it would also take time, time that we really don’t have.
Show threadaustralopithecusFeb 10
@btschumy @benlockwood
Oh yeah, you mean we don't have the infrastructure in place. That's true, but it's also something we can and should start fixing whenever we want. China, for example, is already years ahead of everyone else on this with their huge solar fields. And sodium ion batteries are finally at a point where they're practical, especially for bulk grid storage of power.
Show threadgwentlarryFeb 10

@btschumy @benlockwood

The technology for metal processing exists. Sweden has demonstrated fossil fuel free steel production, from processing the ore to iron and then on to steel. A commercial plant is under construction.

https://www.hybritdevelopment.se/en/hybrit-six-years-of-research-paves-the-way-for-fossil-free-iron-and-steel-production-on-an-industrial-scale/

Most other metals can similarly be produced with effectively zero CO2 emissions.

I would agree that cement is a bigger problem but the science is progressing.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352710224004297

HYBRIT: Six years of research paves the way for fossil-free iron and steel production on an industrial scale - Hybrit

The HYBRIT initiative now presents the results of six years of research in a final report to the Swedish Energy Agency. The report shows that direct reduced iron produced with the HYBRIT process has superior characteristics compared to iron produced with fossil fuels. HYBRIT has applied for and received several patents based on the successful ...

Hybrit
Show threadTiota SramFeb 10

@btschumy @benlockwood @gwentlarry also, electric heavy machinery is definitely a thing:

https://evmagazine.com/top10/top-10-electric-construction-vehicles

Electric motors are superior to combustion engines for a lot of applications actually, now that battery tech is available to give them decent operating times.

As for concrete, there are a ton of other construction materials if you don't focus solely on dense urban architecture. Do we need 20-storey apartment buildings? Not sure on that one.

Don't get me wrong; there *are* a ton of changes necessary to live sustainably, some of which would be uncomfortable, and some modern things (like cheap bananas in temperate regions) might change. But these specific examples are wrong if we're trying to make the case that more technical advances are needed before we'd be able to do so.

In any case, we are very much *out of time*. Either we change now, or magnify the climate disaster to unsurvivable proportions. We definitely *don't* have the technology to miraculously survive unbridled CO2 emissions.

Top 10: Electric Construction Vehicles

EV Magazine ranks the top electric loaders and excavators from Liebherr, Doosan, Komatsu, Volvo, Caterpillar, Hyundai, Hitachi, SANY, Bobcat and Avant

Bizclik Media Ltd
Show threadgwentlarryFeb 21

@tiotasram @btschumy @benlockwood

Timber can be used for surprisingly large buildings. Companies in Sweden have constructed buildings 18 storeys tall from timber.

https://www.sweco.co.uk/services/buildings-urban/structural-engineering/mass-timber-frame-construction/

Mass timber frame construction

Transforming society together

Sweco United Kingdom
Show threadJohnFeb 11

@btschumy @benlockwood

Ah, but we *do* have the technology to recycle cement.

So there you have it.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/05/240522130434.htm

Cement recycling method could help solve one of the world's biggest climate challenges

Researchers have developed a method to produce very low emission concrete at scale -- an innovation that could be transformative in the transition to net zero. The method, which the researchers say is 'an absolute miracle', uses the electrically-powered arc furnaces used for steel recycling to simultaneously recycle cement, the carbon-hungry component of concrete.

ScienceDaily
Show threadBill TschumyFeb 11
@johnzajac @benlockwood That is potentially promising. Let me know when it is out of the research phase and can be used at scale.
Show threadxWood 💖💜💙Feb 21
@btschumy @benlockwood I don't know exactly how large machinery you're talking about but there are electric excavators. And really large machinery anyway uses electric motors with diesel generators, which can be replaced with batteries.
Show threadBill TschumyFeb 21

@xWood4000 @benlockwood Diesel is a very high density energy source. I don’t think it’s feasible to simply replace diesel with a battery. The battery would have to be very large with a high amperage and would weigh quite a bit.

I’m sure it can be made to work with enough engineering but to change out all the existing infrastructure would take quite some time.

Show threadxWood 💖💜💙Feb 21
@btschumy @benlockwood The öresundslinjen ferry was previously diesel and is fully electric (with diesel safety backup). I think it can be scaled down. You are correct that it's an engineering challenge but it's definitely possible
Show threadBill TschumyFeb 21
@xWood4000 @benlockwood Well, ferries are huge compared to most construction equipment. They can carry large batteries in the hold. There is also a significant environmental cost to making large, compact batteries. We may just be trading one cost for another. We’ll have to see how it plays out.
Show threadDreyFeb 10
@benlockwood - 👍
Show threadNeil MoffattFeb 10

@benlockwood And the media endlessly trotting out the importance of the bloody economy and growth - so often that it gets normalised. The repeat simple message that Hitler used.

The economy principally serves those who really do not need 'more'.

Bhutan government have a better idea - happiness of the people is their number 1 priority.

Show threadBenFeb 10
@benlockwood It does indeed need repeating, because many people are trying to convince us that we should wait for some miracle technology that will save all our problems. And it's always right around the corner, just a few years away.
Show threadMidniteMikeWritesFeb 10
@benlockwood market economies are a wicked problem politicians treat as an engineering problem. Until that changes any runaway consequences will remain unaddressed.
Show threadCaptain Jack SparrowFeb 11

@benlockwood

if we had the will, we could find a way

This Green Concrete Is Made From Urine: German Scientists Recreate Sandstone Texture Using Waste in Eco-Tech Breakthrough
https://www.sustainability-times.com/research/this-green-concrete-is-made-from-urine-german-scientists-recreate-sandstone-texture-using-waste-in-eco-tech-breakthrough/

This Green Concrete Is Made From Urine: German Scientists Recreate Sandstone Texture Using Waste in Eco-Tech Breakthrough

In a groundbreaking exploration of sustainable construction methods, researchers at the University of Stuttgart have pioneered a method to transform waste

Sustainability Times
Show threadバツ子（犬育てマニアFeb 11
@benlockwood
optimising for efficiency could easily make a system far better than the current intentionally destroying the world, but even a well-run billions-of-people world would be ecological disaster

say you eliminate meat from the global diet, shut down all the pointless gpus and asics, consolidate travel and mass-introduce hydrogen as fuel or whatever, what you have left is still an agricultural system using like a quarter of earth's arable land, fed by a non-replenishing water table and fertilisers derived from fossil fuels and giant-mess mining, and still reliant on pesticides and "tech" and power grid (the former greatly diminished, but the latter ramping up to unprecedented levels) that require their own mines to dewater and planet-encircling supply chains (moving away from lithium to less power dense alternatives where that density doesn't matter can help but). eliminating poisonous fertiliser and pesticide runoff at least might be possible by a move to indoor farming, but that does require knowledge and technologies we haven't worked out yet, and it's still not enough to reach what i'd think of as an "ecological society". people are just now talking about steel production without coke, and similar innovations would be necessary in thousands of other places in supply chains (e.g. working without animal byproducts in industry) that might be easy, difficult, or currently impossible but would anyways need time and effort not yet put in
Show threadNuwagaba GiftFeb 11
@benlockwood
How can we create the political and economic structures that support our ecological society?
Show threadmike805Feb 21

@nuwagaba2 @benlockwood You will need something other than humans in charge of it. Humans are biologically wired to compete for reproductive advantage. Unlike food and wealth, that never runs out, especially for men. That is why you have billionaires still out there status-seeking.

Fully Automated Luxury Communism will have to be fully automated. No human management.

And you will need to split some atoms to power it.

Show threadNuwagaba GiftFeb 21
@mike805
Thanks for sharing such a valuable insight. Where do we start from?
Show threadmike805Feb 21

@nuwagaba2 AI? (ducks under table)

Seriously though, someone ought to be doing discrete event simulations to test out the various alternative monetary schemes. Let's see which of them actually work and could replace debt based economics. We badly need new thinking about the nature of money.

Show threadNuwagaba GiftFeb 21
@mike805
That's a good step to take . For all this to become a reality, we need to join efforts and make what we dream of a reality. Can I share with you about my project?
Show threadmike805Feb 21

@nuwagaba2 Yes, what are you up to? I read For Us The Living and took an interest in alternative economics and non-usury finance. What I really want is a discrete event simulation of the current economy, with a few million agents, that can reproduce real world economic behavior. I think it could be done on a high end PC. From there you test the alternatives and see which ones work.

I think the current system is broken because a loan does not create the money to pay the interest.

Show threadNuwagaba GiftFeb 21
@mike805
It's about fighting hunger in my community, I work with 12 young volunteer farmers to make this a reality by growing food for the needy, educating local farmers with advanced agricultural skills to help them improve on their production as well as equipping beginner farmers with required tools like seeds , fertilisers and organic pestcides to help them produce the best out of their gardens as well as combating climate change through tree planting. Do you have such initiatives there?
Show threadNuwagaba GiftFeb 21
@mike805
We need to make ourselves independent of tge system. The main reason why we need money is to have access to basic needs especially food. If we can produce our own food, make our own electricity, produce our own clothes and also pit own medicine, money will has no control over us which helps us to escape the system that was designed to enslave us. Our initiative is currently under a crisis where we have been forced to evacuate the land that we have been renting to do our activities
Show threadNuwagaba GiftFeb 21

@mike805
We have been renting the land to grow food for the needy, train farmers agroecological farming practices to improve food production as well as conserving our environment through tree planting in public places. We established a gofund.me page to help us raise funds to buy our own land and make our dream a reality. This is the link from where you can support us.

https://gofund.me/3f38fe9d0

Any ideas to help us progress with our work?

Donate to Buy land and provide food to the needy, organized by Jozsef Vass

Hi, my name is Jozsef and after a successful fundraising for a Kenyan children inst… Jozsef Vass needs your support for Buy land and provide food to the needy

gofundme.com