Mastodawn

John Griffith Feb 4

@kottke

There is a line in a Hemingway novel about going bankrupt slowly, then all at once. I think that is similar to how #EVS are replacing combustion cars

LittleAlex 🇺🇦🇮🇱🇩🇪🇳🇴Feb 4

@kottke But.... But in winter EVs don't work!

@littlealex @kottke yes, I'm really curious about this too. I live in a cold place and I have a plug-in hybrid, which I love, but my EV range in the winter is absolutely dismal.

LittleAlex 🇺🇦🇮🇱🇩🇪🇳🇴Feb 4

@alisynthesis @kottke In my experience it highly depends on the heating system. I had some pure EVs and the progress in the last 10 years is remarkable. Battery heating systems and heat pumps are a blessing.

@littlealex good to know! I would love to switch to a pure EV when my 2018 Outlander PHEV is finished. Thanks for giving me some bits and pieces to look into.

@kottke

@littlealex @alisynthesis @kottke

Enema Cowboy Feb 4

If you're cold, they're cold. Bring 'em in. 😄

Tor Feb 4

@littlealex @alisynthesis @kottke most Norwegians have garages and car heaters. Makes a big difference.

@gisvold I have a garage. Is a car heater the same as an engine block heater? People have those here (northern New England, probably not as cold as Norway), but not usually people who also have a garage.

@littlealex @kottke

Tor Feb 4

@alisynthesis @littlealex @kottke Yes and no - it's usually used in non-gasoline/diesel cars. EV's do not have a engine block to heat, instead they have a battery heater which for many cars can be run from a mains plug, and a timer (some timers built into the car).
Does that answer your question?
MOst houses and flats have a garage or at least access to a garage. in Norway (I left Norway many years ago)

@gisvold yes it does, thanks!

@littlealex @kottke

James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺Feb 4

@kottke What's the veggie diesel situation like in Norway? Is it quite popular?

hömma Feb 5

@freequaybuoy @kottke no combustion cars have been popular in Norway for the last 10 years.

James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺Feb 5

@hoemma @kottke No, but I asked if veggie diesel was popular, as in used a lot, by those people that do use diesel.

lopta Feb 4

@kottke Are the hybrid cars all plug-in hybrid?

Chancerubbage Feb 4

@kottke @CelloMomOnCars

There is a difference between diesel cars and gasoline cars, and I’m frankly surprised if anyone in a climate that cold buys diesels much.

CelloMom On Cars Feb 4

@Chancerubbage @kottke

One difference is that diesel cars can be up to twice as efficient as gasoline cars. And they come with a heater. You heat the engine block a bit before you even start the engine.

Also EV batteries have less range at low temperatures. And yet Norwegians drive those!

Chancerubbage Feb 5

@CelloMomOnCars

I suppose it makes sense then. Because of the preheat, Diesels were the first cars I saw with an electrical plug. (Standard common wall socket for whatever region)

That dirsel efficiency sometimes made their popularity spike during certain economic cycles. But at one time m, finding the fuel wasn’t always easy. A bit like the EV market, for a fossil fuel engine.

CelloMom On Cars Feb 5

@Chancerubbage

European governments have pushed diesel by giving it a tax break, to get the carbon emissions down.

Highway gas stations always have diesel.
I've put my smol diesel Golf in line with the semis for comic effect (also because I needed the juice).

For a little under 13 gallons fill I can go about 500 miles, well beyond the range of my butt to sit on that dirver's seat.

@kottke @benroyce This makes me wonder about the EV infrastructure in Norway. For people who live in apartments, is it common to have adequate number of EV charing stations?
If a townhouse complex has only parking lots and street parking, is charging available.

My biggest fear in the US is that one I move I’ll end up in a place where I can't charge my EV since I plan on selling my house and buying a condo. I suspect Norway has been much better at building an EV infrastructure.

ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES Feb 4

@paulc @kottke

this is a valid argument 10 years ago

there's more than enough charging stations now

it might still involve planning long term trips with care, for now

but if you're doing short term local trips, it's not a concern at all

@benroyce @kottke I'm not as concerned about public charging stations, we might not even need as many of them as gas stations, as the ability to charge at home. I could do that now. I could not do that at my girlfriends home. All parking spots are too far away from the townhouses to even run an extension cord.

My real question is whether Norway has done a better job of an EV charging infrastructure.

ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES Feb 4

@paulc @kottke

They most definitely have

And as more are concerned with charging station availability in other countries, people who run condos will respond

So I acknowledge your complaint, but I add that it is temporary and will go away

@benroyce @kottke I agree that the situation will improve over time in the US unless Trump does everything to prevent the infrastructure from being built.

ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES Feb 4

@paulc @kottke

agreed

Strongbow Feb 4

@paulc @benroyce @kottke I don't know of Norway since they are not in EU, but in EU there was an initiative to install EV chargers for apartments. I think they covered as much as 50% of the cost, it was at least a significant part.

My apartment complex installed EV chargers on all 42 parking spots several years ago. Now there are 15-20 EVs and a couple of plug-in hybrids.

@paulc Oslo has public parking with charging all over the place. Having an EV with no "dedicated parking" is no issue.

I don't think this will be an issue in most countries much longer.

The US? No idea, nothing makes sense in the US.
@kottke @[email protected]

@lettosprey @kottke Thanks for the info on Norway.

In the US everyone is expected to pay their own way even if the billing costs 10x as much as the product.

Unless you are very wealthy. Many in that class expect free stuff.

softproof Feb 4

@kottke Great. Let's hope all their e-juice is at least as clean as diesel cars. Incl. battery manufacture, of course.

@softproof Given the shit the oil industry has done to the world, it is hard to make something worse than that.

I mean, the energy it takes just to produce that stuff is insane.

Diesel cars also put out very toxic fumes, the air in Oslo has gotten a LOT more breathable after we got rid of a ton of diesel cars. That is an important aspect.

But yah, it would be nice if they didn't push "large SUVs" as the "EV you need", giving a much bigger battery need. Ours has a 40kWh battery, the "norm" now seems to be closing in on 100kWh, that bit seems pointless.
@kottke

🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦Feb 4

@kottke The economics of EVs cannot be beat for most people once you've done the ground work for renewables.

Currently, yes, many EVs are powered by fossil fuels (indirectly), but as grids transition to renewables, EVs get a free lift. (Or you could put up about a dozen standard-sized panels at home and get that free lift right now.)

Fossil-driven cars are at a dead end. They can't come along for the ride as renewables enter the picture.