Mastodawn

Kerplunk Dec 27

Talking with anti-vaxxers always makes me angry..

Not just you, many f the antivax arguments are utterly absurd.

I have been called a 5G radio wave controlled Robot on multiple occasions, including from scary German school teachers !.
RNA Vaccine made me that way and that causes my arguments for vaccines..

Fscking great, I only spent a lot of time studying to hear that crap.

Such morons are killing babies and infecting others including vulnerable persons.

Bob Blaskiewicz 🇺🇦 🇨🇦 🇬🇱Dec 27

@Kerplunk @stux I saw a notice at the airport yesterday telling passengers how to spot signs of measles. I may start day drinking.

Kerplunk Dec 28

@rjblaskiewicz @stux

Sign to tell passengers how to see signs of measles.
Then
What does the airport do if a passenger dons a full disposable hazardous material suit gloves and decent N95 mask to protect him or herself.

In Kuala Lumpur you are checked for fever (IR Remotely) and walk by an Airport Doctor, if he sees anything suspicious you get Red signed, same for Fever you are checked by a suited masked person, interviewed, quarantined or WHEN CLEARED allowed on flight, or entry

Sane way.

nick Dec 27

@stux There's several diseases which without vaccines would likely put me in hospital, but having had a whole bunch of scheduled and travel vaccines I'd possibly not even notice I'd been exposed to them, and I think that's pretty close to a miracle.

Henri Verymetaldev Dec 27

This, plain and simple. My mom took me to a "measles party", never forgot that.

Nor the aunt who began to speak "in tongues" when she'd had enough to drink at family parties.

Many years later i realised one was connected to the other so i stay the ef away from all that mambojambo.

Left catholic church but i bet they're still at it, bigtime.

D2 Dec 27

@stux yeah, but centuries? From 1952, we found vaccines for polio measles mumps rubella meningitis chicken pox HPV and dozens of other diseases. Our elderly people *remember* the seriousness of the support. And from this, we went from 10% to 3% child mortality since 1974.

Dopes The Frogman Dec 27

@stux it is sickening to no end that diseases are making a comeback because of the ignorance of people.

@stux
For ANYONE contemplating taking ANY MEDICINE or ANY VACCINE, it’s is always a risk versus benefit calculation. For me, the benefits often outweigh the risks…you may come to a different conclusion, and that’s OK.
People who may tell you that everyone SHOULD TAKE the vaccine, or that NO ONE should TAKE the vaccine are BOTH wrong.
It is NOT a one size (one answer) fits all, it is individual decision dependent on circumstances

@glweiss03 @stux like driving drunk, what appears to be an individual, personal decision imperils other people. So calling it an individual choice misstates the harmful consequences.

@patrascan @stux
Pat, I must disagree, partially. I am pro vaccine, but it’s very difficult to FORCE people. Coercion mostly works, but forcing someone doesn’t generally work.

@glweiss03 @stux Ideally, one's conscience--the inner voice that says "it is wrong to expose other people a disease I carry"--exerts the coercion this case.

@patrascan
YES !

@glweiss03 alas, people without a conscience should sometimes be kept away from people they might harm. Therein lies the rub.

@patrascan
Yes, selfishness. As a recently retired physician, it is sad that the USA (& other places) hve turned their back on science. I’ll repeat something that I often post; the 2 most important science advancements of the 20th century: vaccines and antibiotics.

@glweiss03 very good points you make with your medical perspective. What troubles me so much about anti-vax parents is that most of them love their children intensely. They think they are protecting kids from harm. They are not greedy, selfish or wishing to inflict harm. Yet somehow they believe RFK or whoever over a century's worth of unassailable evidence. It's baffling. And that Wakefield guy should have been tarred and feathered.

@patrascan
I like to interpret their foolishness, not as mal-intent. I think they seem foolish, but PRIMARILY they have been FOOLED.

@glweiss03 nicely and precisely put, GLW.

Jay Dec 27

@glweiss03 @stux If you AND A QUALIFIED MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL deem you part of the fraction of a percent that would be more harmed than protected by a vaccine, sure.

If you prefer to “do your own research”, you are prioritizing your ignorance of disease spread and mutation over the lives and safe functioning of your community and are no different from the belligerent drunk who says they drive better this way.

No Exceptions Dec 27

@stux Anti-vaxxers have been around forever. Emma Goldman's lawyer, Harry Weinberger, represented anti-vaxxers as part of his civil liberties practice.

Public health is different from private health care, and how *dare* anyone spew filth in a subway car or elevator during an epidemic, how *dare* they presume I share their quasi-libertarian death bullshit? Sorry for the kids, it's a bum break with guardians like that.

Colorcoded Dec 27

@stux elk bezoek aan mijn schoonmoeder zie ik letterlijk de gevolgen van kinderpolio. En dan hebben van die anti-vaxxers soms het gore lef om te beweren dat dat de betere optie is. Je hele leven invalide te zijn, beter dan verzonnen aandoeningen door vaccin.

🇺🇸 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 🐧 🥦Dec 27

@stux I'm into herbal medicine. I've gotten a lot of benefits from it. Instead of just believing "Hey! this plant has some overlooked chemicals in it" that community is into all sorts of woo. This morning a mother posted to /r/herbalism asking if she should get her kids vaccines for measles and other "childhood" diseases. For herself she asked if she should get the Covid 19 vaccine and the shingles vaccine.

I held my temper, and explained to her why she should given the facts.

isotope239 🥸💻🇺🇦😣Dec 27

@stux Heck, you only have to go back a few decades to get that point of view. I was born before the measles and polio vaccines. Several kids at my primary school had polio, a couple died and others were crippled, my parents were terrified of it. They got me vaccinated the nanosecond it came out. I didn't have the same luck with rubella or mumps, caught those before the vaccines came out, but if they'd been available you better believe I'd have been sitting in the nurse's office before I blinked!

ChookMother 🇦🇺🦘Dec 27

@isotope239 @stux Exactly. In the 1950s we were all lined up at school to get our polio jab. No-one hesitated. We had classmates with calipers on their legs. We'd seen the photos of wards full of children in iron lungs because they couldn't breathe on their own. There was a special hospital for all the "crippled children". The vaccine was a life-saving miracle.

Budgegeria 🦜Dec 27

@stux And a huge trust issue.

Ferret Dec 27

@stux :stux_santa: One of the best examples of why the western idea of freedom is a lie.

SearingTruth Dec 27

"Our children suffered all we proclaimed just."
SearingTruth

Estarriol, Terrorist Dragon Dec 27

@stux it is child MURDER.

Chancerubbage Dec 27

it’s stupid to boot. It’s a let them eat cake access to public health, with zero realization that disease doesn’t recognize class boundaries.

Gemma ⭐️🔰🇺🇸 🇵🇭 🎐Dec 27

@stux Don't forget that one of the reasons why women had so many pregnancies in the old days was because so many of their babies died in early childhood from infectious diseases. The antivax crusade is a just another means of controlling women's bodies and tying them to abusve relationships and forced birtherism.

jackcole Dec 27

@stux My Mother had radical surgery on one leg, lived in an iron lung, and spent the rest of her life disabled. And because of the disability, she was unable to exercise and died in her 70s. But when the polio vaccine came out, she whipped her kids in to get as fast as she could. And none of her kids got polio. Imagine telling her she should avoid vaccinating her kids.

Alexander Goeres 𒀯 Dec 27

@jackcole i fear that's the main reason for the anitvaxxers fervor. vaccinations worked so well that the general memory of the deseases they helped to fight got lost ...

Hilary Dec 27

@jackcole @stux

This makes me think. Smallpox has been eradicated, via vaccination. Smallpox COULD be eradicated because of multiple specific factors:

*No animal nor environmental host - smallpox can't survive without an infected person

*Causes severe disease - people with smallpox are easily recognised so can be isolated

*Survivors have lifelong immunity.

For other infections, vaccines can be HIGHLY effective with no chance of eradication. Eradication isn't a test of vaccine usefulness.

Hilary Dec 27

@jackcole @stux

So yeah, if anyone says, "There's a vaccine for X, so why is it still around" or "I had the vaccine for X but I still caught X":

Most infections are not like smallpox, meaning most vaccines are not like smallpox vaccine.

Vaccines for most infections do not eliminate all risk. They lower the risk of infection, and/or they lower the severity of infection if it does occur.

Yay vaccines. Vaccines WORK. But one should not expect eradication. That doesn't usually happen.

Dark Phoenix 🇺🇦🇨🇦🇬🇱🇵🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈Dec 28

@regordane @jackcole @stux
yeah but there are samples in deep freeze in an unrevealed number of labs (including in Russia). Smallpox can survive extended freezing.
Right now, I am actually very glad that I am old enough to actually have gotten the vaccine.

Wolfgang Hagen Dec 27

@jackcole @stux
I once had a patient who was a healthy kid till he was 6. Then polio struck him and for the rest of his life he could only move his right arm.

"The vaccine came five years too late for me." And he was so angry at the antivaxxers in the pandemia.

Dark Phoenix 🇺🇦🇨🇦🇬🇱🇵🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈Dec 28

@docjosiahboone @jackcole @stux I recently saw a commercial for one of the child research and care hospitals (St. Jude, Shriners or ?) and I am pretty sure one of the kids had polio, and I wondered how a parent could do that to their child?

Chupacabra 78704 Dec 28

@jackcole @stux
I had a girlfriend in elementary school with braces. Kennedy is a heroin addicted idiot.

@Homoevolutis0 @jackcole @stux

tuban_muzuru Dec 28

Every summer, the pale angel would visit the South with polio. It was terrifying.

My uncle had a minor case of polio, he didn't cope well with it, damaged his personality - eventually died dead drunk on a Sunday morning, behind the wheel of a car hitting a bridge abutment.

Chupacabra 78704 Dec 28

@jackcole @stux
I saw her recently. She moved to Austin too.

Chupacabra 78704 Dec 28

@jackcole @stux she was a helluva barrel racer. The braces protected her legs from injury of the barrels.

John Crowden Dec 28

@jackcole @stux growing up we knew kids with metal braces on legs. Horrible. Get vaccinated for everything.

Saule, anar en Mousses Dec 27

@stux a few centuries ? No need to get that far back.

Whinery Dec 27

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz7vypq31z7o

We have a #GovernmentTransparencyIssue and that creates #anti-vaxxers, #farright supporters, #GOP supports, #AFD supporters and #Trump supporters!

The assessment [80-90% chance that coronavirus accidentally leaked from a Chinese lab] was commissioned by the office of Angela Merkel, Germany's chancellor at the time, but was never publicly known of until now.

#covid19 #covid

German spy agency 'believed Covid likely started in lab'

China denies German media reports of an assessment carried out by spying agency BND in 2020 supporting the theory.

BBC News

Not trying hard enough 🦎Dec 27

@stux
> Talking with anti-vaxxers ...

Ya, that's the problem right there. 🌲

James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺Dec 27

@stux Not only that, but the *only* reason they've got away with it consequence-free for so long is that they *depend* on other people *being vaccinated* for their solipsistic "I didn't catch anything" "evidence." A bit like how bullies rely on the silence and compassion of their victims, and the anti-woke mob are among wokeness' biggest beneficiaries.

MidgePhoto Dec 29

@stux if they were in Leicester in the middle of the antepenultimate century, they'd tell you that they didn't need it, didn't want it, and could do it all with public health measures.

Idiocy isn't new.

tuban_muzuru Dec 29

WHAuden:

"The enlightenment driven away,
The habit-forming pain,
Mismanagement and grief:
We must suffer them all again."