Mastodawn

reimu stallman Dec 17

Mozilla has a new CEO and he just announced that Firefox will evolve into a modern AI browser. This is a good example of how management doesn’t understand its own user base and why they go out of their way to install Firefox on Windows, Android, iOS and other devices.

Full blog post https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/leadership/mozillas-next-chapter-anthony-enzor-demeo-new-ceo/

Barry Rowlingson Dec 16

@nixCraft Really time to find another browser before my encryption keys get hoiked out by a web page with an <ignore-all-previous-instructions> tag.

Stefan Ritter Dec 16

@geospacedman @nixCraft Many people are waiting for a stable version of Ladybird!

Stuck Here Dec 16

@gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft

I've already removed Firefox from my Linux desktop and phone. I've switched to LibreWolf and Vivaldi for the time being.

I've heard of Ladybird but never investigated it.

squareScarletCougar 🐱Dec 16

@MyWoolyMastadon @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft samesis

Gilles Gagniard Dec 16

@MyWoolyMastadon @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft

LibreWolf is all fine and dandy, but it's just a couple of patches on top of upstream Firefox codebase. In no way can they do the heavy-lifting of maintaining a web browser (let alone evolve it) if Mozilla Foundation folds.

And Vivaldi is dependent all the same on Google with Blink: where is uBlock Origin now that Google has finally removed Manifest v2 code from Chromium? It's gone as well.

Chris Routh (He/Him)Dec 17

@gilles @MyWoolyMastadon @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft I seriously considering Seamonkey.

Stuck Here Dec 17

@Routhinator @gilles @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft

SeaMonkey was my secondary browser for the longest time via portable apps. When Mozilla was pulled apart into a separate browser, email client, and calendar.

Oh, those were the days.

Chris Routh (He/Him)Dec 17

@MyWoolyMastadon @gilles @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft it still lives on and has been both contributing to amd pulling in the same gecko engine that Firefox and Thunderbird use. Apparently still supports the same addons.

@MyWoolyMastadon @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft Suppose I'll have to check how many of the alternatives are suitably new enough to have the accessibility changes Jamy worked on, and care about screen readers at all unlike TOR, and maybe new enough to allow the local translation if they don't think that's too AI for their liking. Christ. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that the forks of it strip out screen reader accessibility on Windows on purpose.

Sjoerd Stendahl Dec 16

@gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft At this point I have more faith in Servo than Ladybird.

Politics aside, Servo is more modular as an engine, and thus more useful for alternative browsers. Also, Servo is build for performance, Ladybird will always be behind here.

Feels a bit like backing Ladybird over Servo makes the same mistake as backing Bluesky over Mastadon. That is, the notion that the problem is purely bad leadership, and not with the monilithic centralized structure itself.

zetabeta Dec 16

@sstendahl @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft
let me put the link:
https://servo.org/

it seems that in development.

Servo aims to empower developers with a lightweight, high-performance alternative for embedding web technologies in applications.

Servo is a web rendering engine written in Rust, with WebGL and WebGPU support, and adaptable to desktop, mobile, and embedded applications.

Servo

parzival Dec 16

@zetabeta @sstendahl @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft do yk if there is a plan for a full browser from them or is it just going to be a framework?

zetabeta Dec 16

@parzivalrp2 @sstendahl @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft
that is something i cannot answer at this time.

i just hope there will be a alternate browser and multiple platforms. also linux mobile.

mean time: maybe https://librewolf.net/ , or another privacy browser.

LibreWolf Browser

A custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom.

@parzivalrp2
There was a project (now archived), called Verso: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Verso-Web-Browser-Servo https://servo.org/blog/2024/09/11/building-browser/
@zetabeta @sstendahl @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft

Verso Taking Shape As A Servo-Powered Web Browser

With Mozilla having backed away from the Servo web engine years ago and recent open-source development on Servo focused on making it suitable for embed purposes into other applications/software, it's remained to be picked up by any standalone web browser project

@parzivalrp2
Also there is another project, Gemini (and it is not that shitty google's slop generator): https://geminiprotocol.net/
@zetabeta @sstendahl @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft

Project Gemini

Distante Dec 17

@sstendahl @gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft I am not sufficiently knowledgeable on this subject, but this is my understanding of the situation with browser engines

zetabeta Dec 16

@gideonstar @geospacedman @nixCraft
https://ladybird.org/

keep eye on this.

although, i don't know every detail about this project.

Ladybird

Ladybird is a truly independent web browser, backed by a non-profit.

Un Bourguignon Dec 17

@gideonstar
Is it a fork of Firefox ?
@geospacedman @nixCraft

Barry Rowlingson Dec 16

@nixCraft gonna mute this thread now before I get another seven browser recommendations. librewolf, vivaldi, zen, ladybird, brave... i'll just stick to emacs www mode.

mirabilos Dec 16

@nixCraft @geospacedman there’s always #lynx, sufficient for many sites, and many of those others aren’t worth visiting anyway.

Now, what to do about the remaining sites? I have no idea. I hope the #Debian packagers switch to a suitable #Firefox form when enshittification isn’t patchable-out any more.

@geospacedman @nixCraft
Best engine for Web Browser was Presto from Opera but they stop work on it and move to Chromium. For now we have no choice and must back up Firefox. Maybe WebKIT but I'm not tested Orion yet.

elverkonge Dec 16

@nixCraft How do I downvote this?

@nixCraft So it‘s finally official - we feared the worst and that‘s it.

@nixCraft I hope @Waterfox keeps this crap out of the builds.

Leela Torres Dec 16

@travis @nixCraft
And #librewolf

NekomancerNina 🐈‍⬛ (hiatus🪫)Dec 16

@nixCraft
nooo, not my firefoxy 😭

Robin Adams Dec 16

@nixCraft Plug for @Vivaldi as the only browser I know of with no AI (not even opt-in)

And @StartpageSearch as the search engine with no AI

Victoria🏳️‍⚧️Dec 17

@robinadams @nixCraft @Vivaldi @StartpageSearch proprietary browser based on chromium? No thank you

Cedar Fen Farm Cedar Fen Farm Dec 16

Exactly. Just dumped Firefor for Kagi and Tor.

Alessio Vanni Dec 16

@nixCraft
Adding to the list of browsers without AI that people are naming in the replies.
@palemoon does not force any glorified LLM and it is fully independent from Firefox's codebase.

Rafa Font 🌻 🇪🇺 🏀Dec 16

@nixCraft Hello @Vivaldi Warm up, you're up next

(as my browser)

@nixCraft this is so sad! They really don't get it. On the other hand it's been a while since browsers were exciting. So many new cool browsers coming up, like Helium or Orion. Also I'm still excited about Servo.

@nixCraft This is why Vivaldi is the best browser.

judgyweevil Dec 16

@nixCraft They hope to replace the lost Google money with new AI money

Kerplunk Dec 16

Another Mozilla Bullshit statement.

They already purchased an advertizing company to diversify revenue.

Firefox will evolve in to a modern AI, Artificially Idiotic Browser.

We will grow through transparent monetization, well that would be a real big change, and as for trust, look at the market share, it reflects the perfect management work from Leech Mitchel Baker.

She managed to take millions while weakening the product and sacking developers.

Trust, ha ha ha

Myster Ty - Prince sans rire😷Dec 16

@nixCraft WHAT THE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

BURN TO HELL FIREFOX'S CEO !!!!!!!!!

Skjeggtroll Dec 16

I'm almost impressed at the "monetization that people value" line. That's some high-level verbal effluence that is.

I might understand your monetization, I might even in some cases accept it, but money going from me to you is never something I _value_, and I'm at least 78% certain that I count as "people".

Duckbilled Plattypus.Dec 16

@nixCraft Well, I'm done with Firefox. This is Bull Shit. I hate the imprecise stupidity of AI. "No, NO, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I MEAN!!! That's not my question, and English words are not my automatic default words."

Justin Fowler Dec 16

@nixCraft Their existing user base is too small - they need new ideas. I'm excited to see what they do.

@nixCraft looks like I'm gonna be switching back to Vivaldi, after 3 years on Firefox-based browsers

Edit: nah I'll just use LibreWolf

Al & Val's Modern Homesteading Dec 16

@nixCraft Arrivederci firefux.

FFS...

Aldin The Mage Dec 16

@nixCraft are there any good browsers that aren't just FireFox or Chromium underneath? I use LibreWolf on Debian atm and am pretty happy with that, but it does seem odd that it's basically just those two engines with different features on top

holgersson Dec 16

@jtskywalker Ladybird is really novel, yet in the making and far from stable.
OTOH, if everything is on drugs, buggy might be the best option.

Aldin The Mage Dec 17

@holgersson I'll check that out!

You can try Mullvad browser, puts all webpages in a sandbox, well it's still chromium though .

@dnj0104 mullvad is firefox based

@jtskywalker @nixCraft librewolf..., librefox doesn't exist :)

Aldin The Mage Dec 17

@uhuru @nixCraft Yes - thank you! Who has time to read everything they write :D

Al & Val's Modern Homesteading Dec 16

@nixCraft I've migrated all of my Firefox info over to LibreWolf and am using it now. As soon as I confirm all logins/pw's etc are working, it's getting deleted just like Google was on all my systems.

@nixCraft It's really unfortunate to see Mozilla turning to absolute corporate garbage in the last few years. I really wish they had stuck with their idea from around 2021 to create an innovative, productivity-focused browser (Mozilla Flowstate)

These corporations have zero innovation left since they've started relying on GenAI for everything.

@nixCraft I've switched to LibreWolf a while ago, but reading this made me increase my monthly donations to @servo

Stuart Longland (VK4MSL)Dec 16

@nixCraft I think AI will be the anchor … the anchor that drags him to the bottom of the ocean.

@nixCraft hell no

Atrapado🌴🍫Dec 16

@nixCraft time to get back iceweasel