Mastodawn

Gabriel Heinrichs 6d ago

"Qualcomm-owned #Arduino quietly pushed a sweeping rewrite of its Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, and the changes mark a clear break from the open-hardware ethos that built the platform."

(source: Adafruit https://www.linkedin.com/posts/adafruit_opensource-privacy-techpolicy-activity-7396903362237054976-r14H)

Oh boy, that was fast! Somehow we need to find more future-proof models for open-source hardware. Letting the market do its thing is showing its true colors once again. Pure evil! 👿

#opensource #hardware #fablab #makerspace #electronics

@henk it just means that we stick to the pre-qualcomm hardware which was cloned by hundreds of makers, and choose some other architecture for new hardware. Raspberry pi, for example.

Z̈oé ⛵6d ago

@bonkers @henk raspberry pi was never open hardware. it’s not even good hardware.

@uint8_t @henk I mean mainly the Arduino class of devices, like rp2040. They're very helpful in many designs.

Z̈oé ⛵6d ago

@bonkers @henk okay that’s a very different animal with an Actual Datasheet

@uint8_t @henk it's pretty great (unless you want a device with very low power consumption). Also, it's quite surprising to get this quality of hardware from rpi.

F4GRX SÃ©bastien 6d ago

@uint8_t @bonkers @henk raspi is broadcom, thats not much better than qualcomm lol

@f4grx @uint8_t @henk rp2040 is not

F4GRX SÃ©bastien 6d ago

@bonkers @uint8_t @henk I know, yes. Thats true.

@bonkers @f4grx @uint8_t @henk where can I read more about this rp2040 which supposedly is surveillance cop free? 👀

@eobet @f4grx @uint8_t @henk it's a microcontroller, capable of only running simple programs, basically Arduino class of programs. All the information is easy to find using your favorite search engine.

Z̈oé ⛵5d ago

@eobet @bonkers @f4grx @henk it’s not surveillance-horny cop free, it’s the same raspberry pi foundation

@uint8_t @eobet @f4grx @henk LOL, the chip doesn't even have a network interface. There's definitely no surveillance in them.

F4GRX SÃ©bastien 5d ago

@bonkers @uint8_t @eobet @henk not in the chip, but in the cop they hired, there definitely is.

@f4grx @uint8_t @eobet @henk well, we have also stm32 and Nordic Semiconductor, also NXP. But their chips are much less friendly to DIY makers.

@f4grx @uint8_t @eobet @henk and a bunch of Chinese companies with very solid designs.

F4GRX SÃ©bastien 5d ago

@bonkers @uint8_t @eobet @henk both picos are well made tbh, they work well and have a good sdk.

F4GRX SÃ©bastien 5d ago

@eobet @bonkers @uint8_t @henk never said it was cop free, I said it was broadcom free.

ShutterBugged 6d ago

@bonkers @henk I'm less concerned about the hardware and more about the IDE which Arduino provide as well as it's cloud-connected package manager for software libraries. Boards have been cloned forever but the IDE has remained a constant.

@developing_agent @henk it just means, we need to build a true FOSS IDE.

ShutterBugged 6d ago

@bonkers @henk If only arduino's "build system" weren't a lovecraftian nightmare of header files, java tooling, custom compiler patches, and god knows what else. Practically every "alternative" involves having a copy of the arduino IDE on disk somewhere. I don't know if anyone over the last couple decades has had the wherewithal to try to re-implement the accursed thing.

@developing_agent @henk it could be something completely different, like Rust. I wrote my first rp2040 firmware in Rust, and it's a nice experience. Of course, at the cost of learning a new language.

ShutterBugged 6d ago

@bonkers @henk Rust is definitely not beginner friendly. Arduino only got away with C++ because they used the smallest possible subset of the language, to the point where it might have well been a custom-written DSL.

ShutterBugged 6d ago

@bonkers @henk Compatibility with the huge number of existing arduino libraries for various chips and peripherals is also a pretty important asset. I've been looking for a rust library for the MAX3421E and the rust support is basically nonexistant. Arduino libraries meanwhile support nearly a dozen USB device classes including android debug bridge.

@developing_agent @bonkers @henk Agreed. The libraries are where the value is.

@jarkman @developing_agent @henk

The IDE is under the Gnu license, so we are free to fork and maintain our own version

https://github.com/arduino/arduino-ide

GitHub - arduino/arduino-ide: Arduino IDE 2.x

Arduino IDE 2.x. Contribute to arduino/arduino-ide development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub

ShutterBugged 5d ago

@bonkers @jarkman @henk Yes, but what of the cloud backend that the IDE's library manager fetches from? apt/yum/etc are useless without a package index to pull from. Those libraries are where most of the value is. (It merely happens to be a requirement to be compatible with arduino's garbage build system to use them)

@developing_agent @jarkman @henk I guess, we can port it too. I actually never used the IDE, as Arduino-cli is superior.

@olimex is making good stuff.

@henk cool, cool. I guess I’m not buying any genuine Arduino boards or using genuine IDEs post-Qualcomm then.

@ozeng
I've still got IDE 1.something... Not that I use it much anyways.
@henk

@ozzelot @henk I’m still using the last 1.x release

Andrew Zonenberg 6d ago

@henk It's been more than six hours since the acquisition, and it's Qualcomm we're talking about.

I'm surprised it took this long.

revenge of the boltzmann brain 6d ago

@azonenberg @henk somebody in this thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45984143 dug in, it seems those terms and conditions apply to their cloud services, and are more or less industry-standard for that kind of service. So it seems to be a "not great, not terrible" situation for now.

The Death of Arduino? | Hacker News

Tony Hoyle 6d ago

@henk
I don't even understand why they would do that. Arduino has been cloned hundreds of times, other microcontrollers exist.. If they become toxic everyone simply stops using them and the brand dies.

Tony Hoyle 6d ago

@henk Another thing someone pointed out.. "arduino now owns perpetual, world-wide rights to modify, translate, redistribute, and commercially exploit anything users upload. including code, libraries, photos, designs, and comments. non-revocable, non-expiring."

A lot of that code is GPL and similar.. they simply can't apply that license.

@tony @henk I wonder, are they trying to retroactively apply this nonsense on already uploaded stuff, or will this only apply to stuff uploaded after this?

TurkeyFlanTrout

@ticho @tony @henk

Arduino ai inbound, bet $5

F4GRX SÃ©bastien 6d ago

@TeflonTrout @ticho @tony @henk that would not surprise me

@tony
Same answer as to why Broadcom is doing their toxic shit with the VMware brand they bought: Milking the IP until the brand is dead, selling the leftover technology scraps and patents afterwards and have made profit in the end.
@henk

F4GRX SÃ©bastien 6d ago

@tony @henk sounds easy enough yes. Avr-gcc exists, no need for their weird stuff.

Jari Komppa 🇫🇮6d ago

@henk qualcomm has *a lot* of lawyers. I would have been surprised if this didn't happen.

Toni Aittoniemi 6d ago

@henk ”open source” as in ”we take everything from you” and give nothing back

Graeme 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿6d ago

@henk The expected enshittification... Sad..
Like to see them make the reverse engineering clause stand in law.

ednl 🇪🇺6d ago

@henk I took immediate action.

Cogito Ergo Disputo 6d ago

@henk I don't see how you can prevent that. Arduino was a concept created by 4 people. At a certain point they decided they were fine with selling it. And they did. They owned the concept and sold it. The only people who could have safe guarded the "open-hardware ethos" were the creators. The only way to "future-proof models for open-source hardware" is to forbid inventors from selling their inventions. Does that sound like a legitimate option and something that will encourage creativity?

Flippin' 'eck, Tucker!6d ago

@henk I wonder why the @adafruit account on Fedi (which I believe is an official one) does not post this information? #Adafruit

adafruit 6d ago

@losttourist @henk ran out of time, had a baby, it's us

Daniel Brotherston 6d ago

@henk You know...lawyers do this in the name of "protection"...I wonder if anyone with an MBA or a Law degree is even capable of understanding the absolute destruction this change brings to their brand.

@henk risc-v?

ENG. Tretron 🐲6d ago

potion_genderfluid

@henk
"what do our customers like about our products?"
"How open they are."
"Ok, then, what if we don't do that? That surely has to improve profits."

Joan CiberSheep (ell/això)6d ago

@henk Qualcomm has never been a good company. Ever. This news feels terrible, though

Cainmark Does Not Comply 🚲6d ago

Enshittification again.

Cory Doctorow's book is about the present as well as the past.

Fiona Bianchi 6d ago

@henk well, time to invest in cutlery as there is going to be a rush on forks ;-)

Fiona Bianchi 6d ago

@henk On a more serious note, definitely time to horde as many PDIP packaged "open" microcontrollers/CPUs as possible! Soon the hardware will be impenetrable garbage and DIY projects will be discouraged. Shame I never managed to get 68k CPUs but I do have 6502, Z80, and some ATmega328 ... everything I have (including some PICs but not tried these yet) are supported by https://sdcc.sourceforge.net/ ... maybe time to donate to that project too!

SDCC - Small Device C Compiler

F4GRX SÃ©bastien 6d ago

@fionasboots @henk the project would appreciate it yes. And any pic contributions as these sdcc ports are currently unmaintained and very much not the best ones.

@henk damn, this makes me very sad. I learned to program back in high school on an Uno. Its the end of a fondly remembered era.

@henk Wow, they really decided to speedrun the enshittification process.

The "Arduino" brand will probably end up tainted, but I don't see why the community can't fork the last pre-Qualcomm version of the toolchain and preserve the ecosystem, even if it has to be under a different name. (Freeduino? Libduino? Hopefully someone can come up with something better...)

It's not like they can retroactively close off the releases that were already open source, they can only do it going forward, as they try to build more shitty corporate "cloud" features into the IDE.

There's nothing special about the Arduino-brand hardware, though. The concept of a really cheap dev board (as opposed to the $250+ ones traditionally made by for commercial developers) was a game-changer in its time, but now there are lots of them, including from Adafruit, and the barrier to producing new ones is a lot lower than in the past.

The challenge will be steering new users away from the "brand name" hardware/cloud.

Social Justice Warlock 6d ago

@Kadin2048 @henk "Nolibido"

Cassandrich 6d ago

@Kadin2048 @henk 8-bit microcontrollers were already a hideous technical choice for a long time. Accelerate the move to riscv or even rp2040.