Mastodawn

David Scott Moyer Oct 29

@benroyce "enough of your "BoTh SiDeS tHe SaMe" bullshit and your "votes don't count anymore!" premature capitulation spinelessness"

THIS THIS THIS

Neil E. Hodges Oct 29

@benroyce Anyone saying that they won't vote for people opposing this (including not voting at all) is inadvertently signalling that they are okay with the current situation, even if they say otherwise. >:(

Democracy Dies in Dumbass Oct 29

@benroyce Ahh yes, "Diplomacy"

"#US ambassador to #Canada goes on expletive-laced tirade at #Ontario’s trade representative"

@ShredderFeeder

my country is going rapidly down the toilet

partly because of #MAGA #fascist #bigots

and partly because of these cringe weak "but i want perfect" #nonvoters

yes, the #USA sucked before: that's a silly observation when you realize how much worse it can suck

you get better or worse in this life. that's all you will ever, ever, EVER get

perfect isn't on the menu. never will be

#vote you dumb motherfuckers

#politics

Democracy Dies in Dumbass Oct 29

@benroyce Yeah, but they get really bitchy when you (accurately) blame them for Trump being back in office.

If it weren't for the 7 million or so who stayed home or voted third party he'd be rotting in a jail cell today...

pardon my crudeness, but voting third party is like masturbating into a fan...It might feel good at the time, but it creates a huge mess that someone else is going to have to clean up.

DarkAthena 🐝Oct 29

@ShredderFeeder @benroyce The fan is pointing at the wanker. The mess hits them in the face.

Grassroots Joe Oct 29

@ShredderFeeder

That number is over 15 million.

Way to Win has dug deeply into the cohort of nonvoters they've dubbed Biden Skippers, 2020 Biden voters who sat out 2024.

There are multiple episodes of their Charting The Way Forward podcast discussing their research, including surveys and focus groups, as well as conversations with folks like Terrance Woodbury, Cornell Belcher and Chuck Rocha.

Check them out at https://chartingthewayforward.buzzsprout.com/

@benroyce

Charting the Way Forward

Research-informed strategy and intelligence from across the winning Democratic coalition, with Way to Win cofounders Tory Gavito and Jenifer Fernandez Ancona, and guest appearances from the broader center-left cinematic universe. Hosted by Kerry E...

Buzzsprout

Richard W. Woodley ELBOWS UP 🇨🇦🌹🚴‍♂️📷 🗺️Oct 29

@benroyce @ShredderFeeder

Asking for people to be better than the least of two evils is before voting for them is hardly demanding perfection. People need a system that allows them to vote for who they want not just who they don't want least.

@the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

absolutely true

and you get that with participation

you're not dealing with people making coherent demands before they participate

you're dealing with lazy entitled wankers making excuses not to participate

you give them what they want?

they just make up new excuses not to vote

that is who we are dealing with. *that* is the problem

you can't respect this, it's impossible

you smack these people upside the forehead and demand they wake the fuck up

The Sleight Doctor 🃏🍉Oct 29

@benroyce @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder The worst part is, there's no reason to allow extreme cynicism about the electoral system (which I share!) to become an excuse for non-participation, let alone a reason to deride others for refusing to give up on it.

I personally know hardcore anarchists who would prefer, ultimately, to see the entire apparatus of the state dismantled. Yet they still bloody vote, if only out of spite towards the most right-wing candidate. 😆

@ApostateEnglishman @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

god bless those anarchists!

they can think, unlike so many empty entitled nonvoting whiners out there

@benroyce @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

𝒜𝓁𝒾⋆ ♡⃛Oct 29

@ApostateEnglishman
💯

Neil E. Hodges Oct 29

@ShredderFeeder @the5thColumnist @benroyce Relevant. We won't get a new system if we continue to allow the current system to thrive. :/
♲ f.kawa-kun.com/display/881761a…

Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩

"#US ambassador to #Canada goes on expletive-laced tirade at #Ontario’s trade representative" It's just so fucking embarrassing Americans: WILL YOU PLEA...

@tk @ShredderFeeder @the5thColumnist

exactly!

does the #usa voting system suck?

absolutely

so what do you do?

some of you don't #vote

then what happens

obviously, it gets worse

🤦 🤦 🤦

but if you hold your nose and participate, it will still suck...

but a little less

then you iterate. and it sucks even less next round

that's how you do it!

meanwhile, what does whining and sitting things out achieve, genius nonvoters?

HELLO?

#vote motherfuckers

I_give_u_worms Oct 29

@benroyce @tk @ShredderFeeder @the5thColumnist that is definitely not going to be enough and it is the exact same plan Kamala had

@i_give_u_worms @tk @ShredderFeeder @the5thColumnist

well then pack your bags for the concentration camps

because if you never fight, it's endless MAGA fascism

i agree plodding incremental strategy is dreary and boring

and we need a left candidate with fire in their belly to appeal emotionally

this isn't a problem. that's human nature. there's no denying it

but you have to understand:

we're talking about assholes who don't even show up in the primaries to get those real left candidates!

Grassroots Joe Oct 29

@i_give_u_worms @benroyce
Is it?
Did she clearly lay out the negative ramifications of sitting out the election?
Did she own up to not being perfect, but inarguably a long way better than the adjudicated rapist, especially for people of color?
Did her campaign employ effective communication methods and channels to get her message to people she really needed to hear it?
Did her campaign leverage highly effective ads produced by progressive groups?
...
@tk @ShredderFeeder @the5thColumnist

@benroyce @tk @ShredderFeeder @the5thColumnist

Grassroots Joe Oct 29

@i_give_u_worms
No, no, no, and no.
Especially the last one. Amplify Freedom, a construct of the Freedom Over Fascism Movement Briefing consortium, produced great ads addressing attacks on immigrants, LGBTQ+ people in general, trans people in particular.
Harris' campaign didn't appear to know they existed much less put $ behind them.

If they had Bob Casey, maybe Sherrod Brown would still be Senators, possibly a sane person in the White House.

Democracy Dies in Dumbass Oct 29

@tk Disagree. We need incremental change. But if you always vote for the "left-most" viable candidate in every election, eventually we'll get there.

Radical change or "tear it all down" gets people killed, plain and simple..

@the5thColumnist @benroyce

Mark T. Tomczak Oct 29

@the5thColumnist @benroyce @ShredderFeeder If nobody else wants your politician, you don't get them and that's working as intended.

I don't doubt some Jill Stein supporters think she's the best choice. If 90% of people think she's not, that 10% is never going to get who they want in any system but despotism or random lottery.

@benroyce @ShredderFeeder

Deb Nam-Krane Oct 29

@the5thColumnist Wow, that sounds like people who regularly sit out municipal elections, where people you want are rarely if ever on the ballot. Those rare times you do find someone you want invariably end in disappointment because they *never* live up to your expectations. You vote for the least worst option anyway, otherwise you are letting a shockingly small number of people do it for you.

Choosing not to vote is a de facto vote.

@dnkboston @the5thColumnist @benroyce @ShredderFeeder

roblosricos Oct 30

"none of the above" should be an option on every ballot, and if None wins, the election must be held again, without the rejected candidates.

hell, even I'd vote.

ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES Oct 30

@roblosricos @dnkboston @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

Yes I too like to go on social media and proclaim how things should be, then not do a fucking thing to make it happen, even the easiest fucking thing

@benroyce @dnkboston @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

roblosricos Oct 30

once again, for the people not paying attention -

i just spent 3 weeks at the ICE detention center, 24/7, being gassed and harassed, while you sat on your lazy ass at home.

i didn't get enough to eat most of that time.

i did this to stand up to fascists. as i have done my entire life.

ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES Oct 30

@roblosricos @dnkboston @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

If you voted, you fucking moron, you wouldn't have to do that

Unfollow me at least, a block is preferable

@benroyce @dnkboston @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

roblosricos Oct 30

fuck yourself, you order-giving fascist wannabe.

ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES Oct 30

@roblosricos @dnkboston @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

Oh yeah, I'm a fascist because I want you to vote 🤣

@benroyce @dnkboston @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

roblosricos Nov 1

no, you're a fascist because the US has been a fascist state since 1946, and you've voted to keep it that way your whole life.

@benroyce @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

Deb Nam-Krane Nov 1

@roblosricos Right! Because every vote for the least worst candidate was an endorsement of imperialism, fascism, and excess.

Please list out every vote all of us should have taken since 1990 that would have satisfied your conditions. "Staying at home" is not an option.

@roblosricos @[email protected] @ShredderFeeder @dnkboston @the5thColumnist

Votes for Obama were votes for the summary executions of US citizens without trial. Votes for Obama were votes for bailing out bankers while people lost their homes. Votes for Obama were votes for letting torturers go free and for a massive expansion of the surveillance state and deportations.

Votes for Biden were votes for a massive expansion of the carceral state that Trump is deploying against Americans. Votes for Biden were votes for letting Trump walk free after attempting a coup. Votes for Biden were votes for ending all of the pandemic-era protections that gave people a brief and temporary hope that things could actually get better in American society.

Trump and Trumpism are not the product of a single bad vote. Fascism in America has been built by bipartisan consensus, year after year, decade after decade.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6618048

Biden says 'welcome home' as Trumps arrive at White House

U.S. President-elect Donald Trump and his wife, Melania Trump, were greeted by U.S. President Joe Biden and his wife, Jill Biden, at the White House on inauguration day.

CBC

Joshua Nov 3

@HeavenlyPossum @roblosricos @ShredderFeeder @dnkboston @the5thColumnist Every Time

@roblosricos @ShredderFeeder @the5thColumnist

Right. So tell me what would have happened if I *hadn't* voted for Biden, Obama, and Clinton. Should I have stayed home and not voted for anyone? Should I have voted for Stein or Nader? Would that have made the country a better place?

Let's pretend everyone who voted Dem those years took an alternate path. Do you think everyone who voted for Bush I, Bob Dole, Romney, McCain, Romney, or Trump would have followed suit?

@the5thColumnist @roblosricos @dnkboston @ShredderFeeder

You’d be in the same exact spot you are now, having voted for all those people, because voting and elections are orthogonal to the US political system.

We know this because you *did* vote that way, and here we are.

@the5thColumnist @roblosricos @ShredderFeeder

@HeavenlyPossum I think all of the people who could access reproductive healthcare between 1993 and 2022 would vehemently disagree. We would have gotten to this spot a lot more quickly.

@roblosricos @the5thColumnist @dnkboston @ShredderFeeder

Millions more people voted for Clinton in 2016 than Trump and Trump became president anyway.

Millions more people voted for Biden in 2020 than Trump and Trump still managed to abolish Roe.

Obama and Biden could have pursued the codification of Roe into statute when they held the presidency and Democrats held a majority in the House and a supermajority in the senate—which Obama promised during his 2008 campaign—but didn’t.

Orthogonal.

You seem to think this is a recommendation that Democrats and only Democrats stop voting because Democratic candidates are imperfect. I am instead simply noting that the US political system produced fascist outcomes regardless of how you voted, or even how large majorities voted.

@roblosricos @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

1. You've focused on the imperfections of Democratic candidates, and haven't said one word about their GOP alternatives.

2. Please spare the room your "simple notes" about what's wrong if you don't have any meaningful recommendations other than "burn it all down".

3. You're a troll even Ben doesn't seem to want to engage with, and he is much more patient than I am.

Goodbye.

@roblosricos @ShredderFeeder @the5thColumnist @dnkboston

1. I pointed out that fascism is a bipartisan project that has been steadily constructed by both parties for decades, and didn’t suddenly appear ex nihilo. This was in response to your suggestion that the critique is about “imperfections” on the part of Democratic candidates.

2. You have already voted your way into fascism. You’re not going to figure your way out of fascism if you continue to confuse voting with meaningful or substantive action—if you can’t even figure out why your country is suddenly ruled by fascists who have in their possession an imperial presidency and a massive apparatus of coercion, repression, and surveillance.

3. Ben Royce is Blue MAGA trash and if he has your endorsement, then you probably are too.

@roblosricos @ShredderFeeder @the5thColumnist

God, I hope you're twelve, because that's the only acceptable reason you would think people who advocate for participating in the electoral system wouldn't also advocate for all other activities.

Ben is NOT "Blue MAGA trash", but I'm very happy to be put into the same boat that he's in, so thanks for that.

@dnkboston @HeavenlyPossum @roblosricos @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

LeBonk Nov 3

A system that requires winning every single election in order to avoid fascism (and then still does a bunch of fascism anyway in the name of "unity" and "bipartisanship" and "winning the middle") is a fascist system. These are not "the imperfections of Democratic candidates", these are the built-in conclusions of a governmental system built by wealthy white supremacist patriarchs to maintain their own power against increasing popular calls for actual liberty and equality. And, historically, liberalism (including conservatism, obviously) has always preferred throwing in with fascism rather than actually embracing positive progress, because liberalism is more ideologically compatible with fascism than it is with anticapitalist progressivism, and because the people targeted for extermination by fascism are already the people who liberal capitalism treated like shit anyway (see: French poilce and politicians during the Nazi occupation who turned over their own citizens to the Nazi extermination machine)

Maybe those "meaningful recommendations" are more worth considering than you seem to think. It would genuinely be easier to completely start over than to try to reform the system into something resembling a land of liberty and justice for all. There is vanishingly little left of value in the current system thanks to the people who've run it for the past few decades.

MidgePhoto Nov 3

We would say that votes are not for anything not on the manifesto.

We would also point at the 1950s?60s? book on The American Prison Business by Jessica Mitford and that your carceral state has been a shocker for a long time.

Albeit a _bit_ better than before your Civil War.

ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES Nov 2

@roblosricos @dnkboston @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

Well yes the point is to vote and keep fascism out

What's failing us are the morons not voting and doing call of duty edgelord fantasy life of revolution. Having not the slightest fucking clue what that is really like. They are either violent idiots or agent provocateurs out to sabotage the left

@benroyce
Do you get a lot of blocks, Ben? Because my modest venture into this subject matter a few days ago got me an amazing harvest.
@roblosricos @dnkboston @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

@benroyce @roblosricos @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

@Eetschrijver I just got one!

@dnkboston
Let me guess: from a certain Celestial Mammal?
@benroyce @roblosricos @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

@benroyce @roblosricos @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

@Eetschrijver

You betcha! Ben is getting to me, so I engaged longer than I usually would, but I finally couldn't take it anymore. You too?

@dnkboston
Same here, indeed. They were among the first!
@benroyce @roblosricos @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

@Eetschrijver They're all twelve, right? They have to be younger than high school and, like, on the same Discord server, because they all spew the same BS.
@benroyce @roblosricos @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

@dnkboston
You might well be on to something there!
@benroyce @roblosricos @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

@the5thColumnist
@dnkboston @[email protected] @ShredderFeeder @roblosricos

@Eetschrijver

I do not have you blocked, though I probably should.

SouprMatt Nov 3

@Eetschrijver @dnkboston @benroyce @roblosricos @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder That marsupial blocked me after I dared to question his assertion that the only solution to politics in the USA was to “buy guns” and not vote.

I actually got a MASSIVE amount of blocks on that topic. It turns out that America has a serious mental disease where they love guns more than anything else. And it’s not just right-wingers. Or maybe all those “anarchists” are actually just libertarians with hammer and sickle avatars.

@mls14 That love of guns has done nothing good for our suicide or dv murder rates @Eetschrijver @benroyce @roblosricos @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES Nov 4

@mls14 @Eetschrijver @dnkboston @roblosricos @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

"Or maybe all those “anarchists” are actually just libertarians with hammer and sickle avatars."

bingo

ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES Nov 3

@Eetschrijver @roblosricos @dnkboston @the5thColumnist @ShredderFeeder

i never block

(except those creeps that follow you around to harass you)

when i see posting behavior a normal person would just block, i mock them with an eye on getting them to block me- that's enjoyable. or such that i harvest enough of their behavior to get a server suspend, then i report them (behavior way over the line, like vatnik trolls with their kremlin disinfo, assorted racists, transphobes, etc)