Mastodawn

Julia :v_bi::therian:

as of five hours ago framework made a statement: https://community.frame.work/t/framework-supporting-far-right-racists/75986/1918

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- Harassment or threats: Any comments, posts, or replies that attack, demean, or intimidate an individual or group (e.g., homophobic slurs, anti-trans sentiment, calling other users “Nazis” or “fascists”, etc).Calling someone out for fascist ideology is seen as "harassment" by the Framework team. Enjoy the Nazi bar, Nirav.

Framework supporting far-right racists?

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Framework Community

Julia :v_bi::therian:Oct 24

I'm gonna be working to replace my framework machine with a new desktop in the coming weeks. Using hardware produced by people who are gonna defend fascists like this makes my stomach churn.

@julia what are you gonna do with the old Hardware?

@julia don't blame the daughter for her father. the hardware is a victim in all this!

cherry!! 🌸 ΘΔ Oct 24

@lritter @julia she should move out

@gabu @lritter @julia
And take on her mother's surname.

Christian Lauf Oct 24

@julia *sigh* Can't we have anything nice these days!? Was considering Framework for my next personal laptop, but not with that sort of statements. Read statements like this too often and never came anything good out of them.

cherry!! 🌸 ΘΔ Oct 24

@julia i was recommending framework laptops to everyone who told me they were looking for a new one

i dont even HAVE one myself, i just knew that my next laptop would be a framework one

well that plan is crossed out and i wont be recommending anything from theirs ever again, even if they backpedal on this

obscurestar Oct 24

@gabu @julia I feel you. My current laptop is in great shape but I was considering a Framework for the future and had mentioned them to friends. But now they'll get mentioned only as nazi bootlickers and everyone will be told to take their money elsewhere.

mossfet -> EMF 2026 Oct 24

@julia whatcha gonna do with the old one?

Julia :v_bi::therian:Oct 24

@mossfet keep it in the closet until I feel the need to get rid of it

Cassandra is only carbon now Oct 24

@julia Literally Godwin asked people to stop acting like Godwin's Law is useful now that there's actual out-and-out Nazis running about all over online, and here they are setting moderation policies that just pretend fascists don't exist. Wild.

@xgranade @julia @pathunstrom "my 'I will never defend myself against the claim that I am a nazi on the merits and will always retreat to a procedural argument' t-shirt is raising a lot of questions already answered by my t-shirt"

Juho Mäntysalo Oct 25

@xgranade @julia

Godwin's law was always meant to stop people with poor understanding of issues to default to the only "legit" category of bad (eg. "everything I don't like is fascist").

While we do have actual fascists among our midst (and truthfully did even in the 1990s), we also still also have people playing with half a deck.

(Partly due to misunderstanding liberalism or capitalism as "mostly good", or distinctively different from fascism in a manner separate from intensity.)

Juho Mäntysalo Oct 25

@xgranade @julia

For example, I've twice been accused of being a fascist for using tragedy of commons as a shorthand for fallout of community collapse.

This despite my profile saying I'm a socialist, and wikipedia noting that tragedy of commons as a theory has evolved past its roots as a hobby horse.

@iju Well, “tragedy of the commons” doesn't mean “the fallout of community collapse” (that sounds vaguely like the fascist propagands version of the tragedy of the commons)

“Tragedy of the commons” refers to the unproductive overexploitation of common-pool resources that occurs if members care only about their own short-term benefit

Juho Mäntysalo Oct 25

Yeah, and the reason someone can concentrate on their short-range profits is due to the community having lost its power to regulate unbecoming behaviour.

For example, overfishing in a lake is caused by the fishing community not being able to regulate its members, or someone outside the community is overfishing without the community being able to stop this.

I'm not sure how this sounds fascist: the wikipedia-article agrees, not to mention this is what I've got my master's in.

Juho Mäntysalo Oct 25

To be clear, tragedy of the commons is well observed phenomenon. The original person to popularise the term just happened to be all-around nasty person, who invented causes for the behaviour that served their views.

I'm very interested in hearing (and I do mean this sincerely) why community collapse (usually due to members spending lot of time outside the community, or capitalism allowing exploitation without becoming a member) sounds like something a fascist would say.

komali_2 Oct 26

@iju you're describing for example imperialist capitalist exploitation of community resources, not tragedy of the commons.

Juho Mäntysalo Oct 26

They are related concepts, yes. But tragedy of commons refers to how said-commons become over-used. Capitalist exploitation doesn't directly refer to impotence or destruction of community and/or its resources.

Capitalism isn't also the only reason community may lose its potency.

komali_2 Oct 26

@iju tragedy of the commons refers to how the commons becomes overused because it's owned in common and therefore, because (the theory says) humans are selfish and will take as much as they can for themselves or so they can do rent seeking behavior, it will all be taken until it's gone. Which is not supported by historical evidence.

Capitalist exploitation manifests in many ways. One way is imperialist exploitation of a community's natural resources.

Juho Mäntysalo Oct 26

>therefore, because (the theory says) humans are selfish and will take as much as they can for themselves..

Yeah, and the hobby horse gallops toward privatisation.

The modified version, backed by research, is that overuse happens when community administering the resource, for whatever reason, loses the control over it.

Leading to the solution of strengthening or création of community.

Please note the above tragedy includes vandalism, which seldom connects with capitalism.

Spike (alt)Oct 24

@julia
> issue where every choice is naturally opinionated
> "we wanna be neutral"
> ends up platforming and supporting Bad People

Spike (alt)Oct 24

@julia bleh sorry for the rant it's just. I'm tired of seeing this

@pastthepixels @julia I don't think i have ever heard a non-nazi person say "we just want to be neutral" ever in my life.

Dr Andrew A. Adams #FBPE 🔶Oct 24

@pastthepixels @julia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance?wprov=sfla1

Paradox of tolerance - Wikipedia

Rachel Gustave Lee Mathes Oct 24

@pastthepixels @julia Every. Damned. Time.

sylvie 🦊🌲🍂Oct 24

@pastthepixels @julia yupppp. happens far too often 😭

@julia I see they have now decided to take a shotgun to the foot instead of just a handgun

Spike (alt)Oct 24

@usernameswift c devs switching to c++

@usernameswift @julia i'm just imagining some UT2k3-era arena FPS announcer voice enthusiastically naming increasingly powerful weapons one by one

babble encat Oct 24

@julia ha. So they took a side and now I can be fully against them

void refrigerator [alt account]Oct 24

@julia the frame is NOT working, is it

neocat_googly_shocked

SkipfordJ Oct 24

@julia God damnit.

Ada Freya - Neptuwunium Oct 24

@julia i assume "Enjoy the Nazi bar, Nirav." is a new line added by you and rendered as part of the same quote in akkoma because akkofe sucks ass at rendering markdown

Julia :v_bi::therian:Oct 24

@[email protected] yes

@ada @julia akkoma actually sucks ass at rendering MFM specifically, if MFM support was ripped out entirely it’d work fine cuz it’d use the HTML provided by misskey instead, as it does for anything else other than MFM AFAIK (might have to look in akkoma code to be sure..)

@julia the irony of having anti-trans sentiment on there while heavily platforming a person who is openly anti-trans

@julia I bet if someone started a ruckus on the LTT forum, they could get something out of Framework. Linus isn't their biggest investor, but he is their most public one and there's a pretty healthy anti-fan community ready to pounce on this kind of stuff.

(Disclaimer that I despise every anti-fan community and think they have no place anywhere but, if they're going to exist, we might as well make them useful)

Aprettyture! [0172]Oct 24

@dfxluna @julia nah i am certain its been brought up at the forums by this point, plus i know it has been brought up on the subreddit [which we know is checked by LMG employees]

idk i find it exceedingly unlikely that this whole situation would not have been flagged by them in the fortnight that this issue have been going on

unfortunately the larger community sentiment on the subreddit seems to be the argument that "ohh but all the companies support evil people!"

so yeah i think itd be kinda worthless, if i had to guess they made the tactical decision to just actively ignore this issue :/

-carrie

@aperture @julia @dfxluna it’s been brought up on the forums and all threads on it are swiftly deleted

Aprettyture! [0172]Oct 24

@niko @julia @dfxluna color me shocked

yeah i pretty much just assumed after like a week they werent gonna tackle it so ive moved on from ltt

which is a shame but , whatever i was kinda liking them less anyway with almost all the hosts i like leaving

-carrie

@dfxluna @julia I'm not sure you're going to get any traction with that among the 14 year olds watching his videos

This Panda Eats Pumpkins Oct 24

I dunno if I’d make that assumption when their first ever trans employee had to leave the company…

zaire arcana Oct 24

@julia that entire sorry excuse for a statement was made by a slop generator i suspect

@julia and we have Micron and HP and Apple giving money to the Trump ballroom pay-to-play scheme

🤬

Keeper of the orb Oct 24

@julia nazis are always so whiny about being outed as fucking nazis

Dźwiedziu Oct 24

@hi_cial
Fucking snowflakes

Ricky Bhattacharya Oct 24

@julia Framework never came to our region, but at the same time, we are supportive of our local hardware makers, namely Zebronics, Intex, and iBall, and distance ourselves from mainstream hardware makers like HP and Dell.

#AatmaNirbharBharat.

@julia wtf

neocat_googly_shocked

Ryan Finnie Oct 24

@julia "The big tent has been filled. In the interest of open discussion, we are not allowing you to point out who they are."

Mike Anderson Oct 24

@ryan @julia especially not the ones that we're paying to perform.

Wulfy—Speaker to the machines Oct 24

REPOST:
If you build a tent big enough for Nazis to dance in...
... You're a Nazi

#framework #Nazis

@julia do they make distinction between calling and calling out?

Julia :v_bi::therian:Oct 24

@pointlessone nope.