Julia :v_bi::therian:Oct 24

as of five hours ago framework made a statement: https://community.frame.work/t/framework-supporting-far-right-racists/75986/1918

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Framework supporting far-right racists?

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Show threadCassandra is only carbon nowOct 24
@julia Literally Godwin asked people to stop acting like Godwin's Law is useful now that there's actual out-and-out Nazis running about all over online, and here they are setting moderation policies that just pretend fascists don't exist. Wild.
Show threadJuho MäntysaloOct 25

@xgranade @julia

Godwin's law was always meant to stop people with poor understanding of issues to default to the only "legit" category of bad (eg. "everything I don't like is fascist").

While we do have actual fascists among our midst (and truthfully did even in the 1990s), we also still also have people playing with half a deck.

(Partly due to misunderstanding liberalism or capitalism as "mostly good", or distinctively different from fascism in a manner separate from intensity.)

Show threadJuho MäntysaloOct 25

@xgranade @julia

For example, I've twice been accused of being a fascist for using tragedy of commons as a shorthand for fallout of community collapse.

This despite my profile saying I'm a socialist, and wikipedia noting that tragedy of commons as a theory has evolved past its roots as a hobby horse.

Show threadFabio G.

@iju Well, “tragedy of the commons” doesn't mean “the fallout of community collapse” (that sounds vaguely like the fascist propagands version of the tragedy of the commons)

“Tragedy of the commons” refers to the unproductive overexploitation of common-pool resources that occurs if members care only about their own short-term benefit

Oct 25 at 11:46amWeb
Show threadJuho MäntysaloOct 25

@magitweeter

Yeah, and the reason someone can concentrate on their short-range profits is due to the community having lost its power to regulate unbecoming behaviour.

For example, overfishing in a lake is caused by the fishing community not being able to regulate its members, or someone outside the community is overfishing without the community being able to stop this.

I'm not sure how this sounds fascist: the wikipedia-article agrees, not to mention this is what I've got my master's in.

Show threadJuho MäntysaloOct 25

@magitweeter

To be clear, tragedy of the commons is well observed phenomenon. The original person to popularise the term just happened to be all-around nasty person, who invented causes for the behaviour that served their views.

I'm very interested in hearing (and I do mean this sincerely) why community collapse (usually due to members spending lot of time outside the community, or capitalism allowing exploitation without becoming a member) sounds like something a fascist would say.

Show threadkomali_2Oct 26
@iju you're describing for example imperialist capitalist exploitation of community resources, not tragedy of the commons.
Show threadJuho MäntysaloOct 26

@komali_2

They are related concepts, yes. But tragedy of commons refers to how said-commons become over-used. Capitalist exploitation doesn't directly refer to impotence or destruction of community and/or its resources.

Capitalism isn't also the only reason community may lose its potency.

Show threadkomali_2Oct 26

@iju tragedy of the commons refers to how the commons becomes overused because it's owned in common and therefore, because (the theory says) humans are selfish and will take as much as they can for themselves or so they can do rent seeking behavior, it will all be taken until it's gone. Which is not supported by historical evidence.

Capitalist exploitation manifests in many ways. One way is imperialist exploitation of a community's natural resources.

Show threadJuho MäntysaloOct 26

@komali_2

>therefore, because (the theory says) humans are selfish and will take as much as they can for themselves..

Yeah, and the hobby horse gallops toward privatisation.

The modified version, backed by research, is that overuse happens when community administering the resource, for whatever reason, loses the control over it.

Leading to the solution of strengthening or création of community.

Please note the above tragedy includes vandalism, which seldom connects with capitalism.