Mastodawn

sherman651 Sep 30, 2025

Tired of YouTube calling all the shots? It’s time to build something better—together.

Here’s the slide deck for a proposal to launch a PeerTube co-op.

Right now, there are three of us ready to get this off the ground. I’m looking for two more founder-members to bring us up to five. With that core, we’ll have the resources to make a PeerTube server not just viable, but sustainable—and built to last.

This isn’t about joining someone else’s platform. It’s about creating one. As a founder, you’ll have a real voice in governance and a direct hand in shaping content policies, by-laws, moderation rules, and more.

We’re staying early stage by design. This is the moment to get in, shape the vision, and build something that actually challenges the status quo. If that excites you, message me.

Slidedeck in .odp format: https://drive.proton.me/urls/ZRRBNK4XBM#RmYXrnhKXx3C

Slidedeck in .pptx format: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1LgJvocTe6hH8bCw-yy-2o5QWSYCABkyL/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108163627088117284715&rtpof=true&sd=true

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WTL Sep 29, 2025

@atomicpoet Are your founding members required to be in BC? I'm in Ontario.

Chris Trottier Sep 29, 2025

@WTL I don’t think so. We already have three founding members in BC. Since BC only requires three people for co-op incorporation, we’ve satisfied that aspect. Now it’s just a matter of finding two or more people to make this a sustainable venture.

GunChleoc Sep 29, 2025

@atomicpoet @WTL Does it need to stay at 3 people after incorporation?

Just something to think about in case one of you will need to drop out one day because real life happens.

Chris Trottier Sep 29, 2025

@gunchleoc @WTL Good question—no, it doesn’t need to stay at 3 people after incorporation.

Under BC’s Co-operative Association Act, a co-op must have a minimum of 3 directors at all times, but it can absolutely expand beyond that. In fact, most co-ops add more directors over time as membership grows.

The key is to make sure your bylaws allow for board expansion, which they typically do by default (e.g., “the number of directors must not be fewer than 3, and may be increased by ordinary resolution”). If someone drops out, the co-op just has to appoint or elect a replacement to stay above the legal minimum.

So: start with 3 for agility, but you’re not locked into that number. Growth is expected and built into the structure.

GunChleoc Sep 30, 2025

@atomicpoet @WTL That's good news 🙂

I don't have the spoons for another project, but I wish you good luck.

One technical hint: If you want to allow synchronization to YouTube, make sure to add a cron job that will update yt-dlp frequently. It's an arms race. You will also need to use it with a JavaScript engine: https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp/issues/14404

[Announcement] Upcoming new requirements for YouTube downloads · Issue #14404 · yt-dlp/yt-dlp

Beginning very soon, you'll need to have Deno (or another supported JavaScript runtime) installed to keep YouTube downloads working as normal. Why? Up until now, yt-dlp has been able to use its bui...

GitHub

Chris Trottier Sep 30, 2025

@gunchleoc @WTL I appreciate the well-wishes so much, and that technical advice is so much appreciated.

Juancho Sep 29, 2025

@atomicpoet First of all, I should mention that I'm on Peertube, but it's awful. It doesn't work well for many reasons. One of them is the servers that open and close, leaving people stranded. The problem is money; you need a lot, no, a huge amount of money.

Chris Trottier Sep 29, 2025

@juancho_me You’re absolutely right—running PeerTube as a solo admin is brutal. Storage and bandwidth costs scale fast, and when one person’s server folds, the whole community gets stranded. That’s exactly why I’m working on a co-op model: pooling resources so it’s not just one person footing the bill, and building governance so the server doesn’t live or die based on one admin’s wallet.

A properly structured co-op can spread the financial load, create sustainable hosting, and give members an actual say in how the instance is run. It’s a way to turn the “huge amount of money” problem into a shared, survivable model.

doboprobodyne Sep 30, 2025

@juancho_me @atomicpoet
https://apps.yunohost.org/app/peertube
I assume bandwidth is the rate limiting step for those hosting off their own domestic internet connection!

#peertube #yunohost #homelab #video #streaming #p2p #selfhosting #degoogle

YunoHost app store | PeerTube

Chris Trottier Sep 30, 2025

@doboprobodyne @juancho_me Exactly—PeerTube’s P2P functionality helps offset some of the egress costs, especially when multiple viewers are involved, since they share chunks of the stream with each other.

But even with that, hosting video is still very cost prohibitive for solo operators. Egress adds up quickly once you have more than a handful of viewers, and most domestic upstream connections just can’t handle sustained traffic.

That’s exactly why we’re looking at this through a co-op model—pooling resources makes it possible to handle those costs collectively, rather than leaving individuals to carry the entire load on their own.

Drew Scott Daniels Sep 30, 2025

@atomicpoet would you host videos for commercial websites that don’t want the “watch on YouTube” or advertisements to creep in? I’m not sure it’s a good idea, but it’s got me wondering if something like this might be a viable hosting alternative for certain corporate use.

Chris Trottier Sep 30, 2025

@drewdaniels Purposely, I’m not setting policy on what kind of content gets hosted—or how it’s monetized.

That’s not my call to make. It’s ours.

This will be consensus-driven, decided by the people who actually co-own the platform—not dictated by me, and definitely not by some faceless corporate board.

Because that’s the whole point of a co-op: to serve the needs of its member-owners. If you want a say in the future of the platform, this is where that happens.

Eelco Sep 30, 2025

I like the idea, but I'm puzzled at the same time.

You want to get rid of #Youtube (aka #Google ) calling the game and you like to talk about the #fediverse .

But you present it in a #microsoft #powerpoint document that you share on #googledocs ?

There are #opensource alternatives for that. Why not use #libreoffice for a start?

Chris Trottier Sep 30, 2025

@eelcoa That’s a fair point—but this isn’t about liking or disliking Google, or about picking the “perfect” tool from day one.

It’s about building something through consensus. I’m not the one setting tool policy. This is a co-op, which means decisions like what platforms or software to use aren’t mine to dictate.

If you want a say in that—whether it’s LibreOffice, Nextcloud, or anything else—that happens collectively, at the table, as a member-owner. Personally, I believe that process makes it better.

Christopher Walker Oct 1, 2025

@atomicpoet @eelcoa I had the same question. 😂 If I were a member I would advocate using open source tools for internal communications. I'm not a content creator now, but I was thinking of starting a YouTube channel. I don't anticipate it being popular enough to monetize it, so the $0 financial cost was a big draw. But I love the idea of co-ops and hate the idea of handing reams of free data over to Google in return for hosting my vanity project, so I might be interested. It's not a huge buy-in.

Chris Trottier Oct 1, 2025

@cswalker21 @eelcoa That’s exactly the kind of thinking we need. The point isn’t to compete with Google dollar-for-dollar—it’s to build something where creators own the ground they stand on.

The buy-in is intentionally low because this should be viable for people like you: folks who want to experiment, maybe grow into something bigger, without feeding the ad machine in the meantime.

And I can say for sure: I absolutely want to use open source tools for internal comms. It just makes sense for what we’re trying to build.

Drew Mochak Oct 4, 2025

@eelcoa Sorry but how exactly does one link to an online presentation in libre office impress?

Eelco Oct 4, 2025

To share a Libre Office doc you would need a sharing platform. LibreOffice itself is pure local. So you could still use #Googledrive for that (that's why I said 'for a start'). To keep it out of #bigtech hands, look for alternatives: put it on your own website, or use an open source sharing platform like #nextcloud, #collaboraoffice or start a project on #codeberg.

But there will be much more options, search for 'open source filesharing' and you'll find plenty of options.

@prism @atomicpoet

Drew Mochak Oct 4, 2025

To share a Libre Office doc you would need a sharing platform. LibreOffice itself is pure local.

That's what I thought. Thanks!

DDR Sep 30, 2025

@atomicpoet I'd throw in a hundred bucks to help with hosting. I have way too much other stuff on my plate now to help found it though. #BC

Chris Trottier Sep 30, 2025

@ddr That’s awesome. Let’s revisit after this gets established.

@[email protected]Sep 30, 2025

@atomicpoet I've started a nonprofit BTFree (Big Tech Free) and started TubeFree.org. Don't know if we could work together or how this would work, but I'm already working on something similar and want to coordinate or anything any way I can!

Chris Trottier Sep 30, 2025

@ozoned I appreciate the outreach. Send me a DM, and let me know what you have in mind.

Ooze 𓁟 Oct 1, 2025

@atomicpoet The irony of using Google docs for this.

Chris Trottier Oct 1, 2025

@Ooze Yeah, I know — trust me, it stings every time I open the tab. 😅

This is temporary. I absolutely want to move everything over to open-source tools once the founding group locks in. Right now it’s the fastest way to get everyone looking at the same doc.

Ooze 𓁟 Oct 1, 2025

@atomicpoet I hear this all the time. And then temporary turns into forever. It is just as fast and easy to use, etherpad, or onlyoffice, or cryptpad, or hedgedoc as it is to use google docs. Just walk away from the evil. Just do it.

Chris Trottier Oct 1, 2025

@Ooze I get why you’re passionate about this, but until today, I honestly hadn’t even heard of some of those tools. No one ever introduced them to me. Even now, I haven’t tested them, don’t have a NextCloud server, and don’t know how well they actually work in practice.

This isn’t about refusing alternatives—it’s about not having that infrastructure or familiarity yet. Once the co-op is up and running, member-owners will decide what tools we use collectively.

Ooze 𓁟 Oct 1, 2025

@atomicpoet Well I am glad to be making you aware of them. You don't need a NextCloud server. "You don't need to set up a server and install Etherpad in order to use it. Just pick one of the publicly available instances that friendly people from everywhere around the world have set up."

Gilou Oct 1, 2025

@atomicpoet that's what we do at https://www.yiny.org !
It's a non profit and at least two people, and a non profit ISP to link that.. Happy to see initiatives, there are niche instances building that way in France..

YinY.org

Une instance dédiée à la culture punk et libertaire. Pour que vive l'internet et la musique libre !

YinY.org

Irenes (many)Oct 3, 2025

@atomicpoet oh that is exciting. we have too much on our plate to be directly involved, though we're tempted because you're local. good luck, and please keep us posted on how it goes.

Chris Trottier Oct 3, 2025

@ireneista Totally understandable—everyone’s plates are full these days. I’ll definitely keep you posted as things progress. And who knows… maybe down the road, when the co-op’s more established, there’ll be a way to collaborate that fits your bandwidth.

Irenes (many)Oct 3, 2025

@atomicpoet that'd rock :)

@atomicpoet I have thought a little about this previously and came up with an objection to a content creator co op.

The potential for different audience sizes in a creator co op is nigh unbounded. In the event of extreme success a co op member can be lured by for-profit models, leaving the co op to absorb start up costs but paradoxically not have any security of income in the event their members are successful. You can try to manage this with governance sure, but maybe there are alternative models.

By contrast a consumer co op, or watcher co op in that the peer relationship can be the focus of collaboration, can be that lure through crowdfunding grants on the terms of the audience. The snowdrift funding model is an idea I find compelling, for example, and I think it would suit a content consumer co op quite well.

Do you have any thoughts about crowd funding a vehicle for a consumer co op, and seeding it with content creators want to make, rather than relying on creators to wear platform risk as well as creative risks? A co op art collective patronised by a much larger audience co op feels like a more sustainable idea. The art collective providing leadership to the consumer co op even makes sense in that model.

Chris Trottier Oct 4, 2025

@octarine_wiggle That’s a really thoughtful comment, and I think you raise some good points about governance, scale, and platform risk.

That said, I think there’s a bit of a misconception in how you’re framing the co-op model. A co-op isn’t a non-profit or a crowdfunding vehicle. It’s a for-profit business—the difference is who owns and benefits from it. In a co-op, the surplus goes back to members (or gets reinvested), rather than to outside shareholders.

So if a creator joins a co-op, they’re not leaving a for-profit model for a non-profit one—they’re moving from a shareholder-owned for-profit to a member-owned for-profit. The incentives can actually be stronger, since the platform’s value accrues to its members instead of external investors.

Also, this doesn’t have to be “creator vs consumer.” Multi-stakeholder co-ops exist, where different groups (e.g., creators, viewers, workers) each have roles and representation. That structure can handle the kinds of scale and governance questions you’re raising without defaulting to a grant-funded or donation-based model.

@atomicpoet I think that's fair and I shouldn't have framed it as for-profit vs non-profit. I definitely think that cooperative commerce is a strong attitude. I wonder if there's a more focused mission then to try out some of these ideas rather than need them to all come together at the same time. Maybe a YouTube editor co op that curates content on a moderated platform? It seems really prevalent that a successful creator will advertise a private discord or Patreon where early access to the editorial process is monetized. Taking that to a platform scale could be interesting, and putting that back onto the more open web is a virtue in itself.

I hope to see you succeed in whatever you choose to do. I am keen on a consumer co op, and can envision a day when it simply becomes inevitable due to the obvious success of prior models.

Chris Trottier Oct 4, 2025

@octarine_wiggle That’s a great clarification, and I really appreciate the way you reframed it here.

I actually see what we’re doing as laying the groundwork for exactly that kind of experimentation down the road. A multi-stakeholder co-op gives us the structure to host those kinds of models—whether it’s a creator-run editorial collective, a consumer co-op, or something entirely new that emerges once the foundation is in place.

Right now the focus is on building a legal, financial, and governance framework that’s stable enough to support whatever creative directions come next. That’s where a co-op really shines: it creates the shared container, and then the people inside get to shape what happens.

Kevin Boyd (he/him) 🇨🇦Oct 4, 2025

@atomicpoet I'm in, sign me up.

I am currently the membership director of a non-profit co-op ( @SookeSailingCoop ) and pretty busy with all my hobby projects, but some of those projects are related to co-ops in general, and some of them are related to video production in general, so this is of great interest to me & I'd be happy to help with founding.

Chris Trottier Oct 4, 2025

@kboyd Awesome to hear, Kevin!

I’ll be sending out a full update to prospective founding members tomorrow night with the next steps. Want me to add you to the mailing list so you don’t miss it?

@atomicpoet Interested in this; is there a place to sign up?

Chris Trottier Oct 6, 2025

@rpm If you’re interested in becoming a founding member-owner, DM me your email and I’ll add you to the mailing list for further developments. Things are moving quickly, and you’ll get the key updates as we take the next steps.