Mastodawn

Today I fixed a television out of spite.

One of the most common faults with modern TVs is a backlight failing. These are cheap to replace, and the tools to test them are cheap to obtain.

But the effort to get to the backlights? Oh my!

A TV that was made to be repaired would have a separate pane for backlights you could slide out, or some other access mechanism.

But today's consumer TVs require you to disassemble practically everything to get to the backlights. That means getting to them is a huge investment in time (for self-repair) or money (if you go to a repair shop and pay for labour). TV companies know that most people will just buy a whole new TV.

So today I fixed the TV out of spite. Not because it was rewarding, or for environmental or financial concerns (although all of these are valid). I fixed it because the company that made it did not want it to be easily fixed.

Joel Wirāmu, Pauling Sep 27

@pjf
this describes about 95% of my internal motivation for most electronics projects

Personne Sep 27

Same.

Lance (Thank you for 11 Views)Sep 27

@pjf Thanks for mentioning a possibility I hadn't even considered with respect to TVs.

Several years ago we bought a relatively inexpensive Sceptre 65" TV. I chose it because it was one of the very few "dumb" TV models I could find. It's perfectly adequate for our needs.

I hope it lasts many years because I don't want a smart TV. If I have the option to repair it myself — even if it's a bear to disassemble — I will absolutely try to do so!

Bravo. In spite of my applause. I feel a new anti-consumer movement in the making...

laptops have brought me to tears.

so much wasted material sometimes because of one single component...

@rexi @pjf heh. Reminds me of the time I decided to replace the backlight of a mac laptop display in the 00's. Had to take it apart starting from the keyboard up. The component cost around a tenner and the work took forever. Was a type defect.

And the good times when the pirates got the electrolyte solutin wrong and caused billions in damage for popping capacitors. I bet there are still some cheap ones circulating. Easily replaceble, but the amount of work...

Edit: link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Capacitor plague - Wikipedia

internetsdairy Sep 27

@pjf I remember pre-90s TVs used to break down quite a bit, and indeed it was common to rent a TV and having a guy come out and fix it if necessary was (I think) part of the fee. But they always seemed to be able to fix it pretty quickly, I don't remember them ever having to take it away (that would have been traumatic, I'd have remembered). So presumably the TVs were made to be easily fixable. Probably a better state of affairs? Though better if they could have been more reliable I guess

Urban Camera Sep 27

@internetsdairy

they were easier to fix. You simply took of that back panel on your massive TV, and everything was there...

Viraptor Sep 27

@internetsdairy
I'd rather say: pre-90s consumer tech made it harder to hide small things. Important things were large, available in electronics shops, and due to logistic issues, the schematics were often included with the device rather than trying to supply them to the repair people. It was hard to make repair hard.
@pjf

MidgePhoto Sep 27

@pjf
Good work.
I'd think if backlights are expected to fail multiple times in one TV then designing them like room lights to easily replace the bulb would be obvious.
If most TVs reach their end of life without a single backlight failure then perhaps we would spend most effort on getting a very uniform blending of light from multiple "bulbs" inside them, and on mak8ng panels durable.

I've observed over decades car bonnet spaces going from difficult to work on to much more organised ...

MidgePhoto Sep 27

@pjf ...as the likelihood of a catastrophic major component failure being the engines terminal event has come down.
Now we are abandoning things that burn and go bang and reciprocate, and I have some electronics in there and nicely made containers for fluids, and space and clips and clever covers.

I don't think TVs have quite got there, but it may not be long.
Or they might become walls. Change the light from the next room.

Richard 🔶UK #RejoinEU Sep 27

@Photo55 @pjf so you’re saying that they are becoming so reliable that there’s less need to make them easy to fix. I suppose we could add that the technology moves on so far and so fast that you would want a newer model anyway… I’m sure there must be evidence to make a rational decision whether to be bitter or not

@stevewfolds Sep 27

@rpin42 @Photo55 @pjf
New silicone chips & software make my consumer hardware obsolete about every 7 years. Apple.

MidgePhoto Sep 27

@rpin42 @pjf
Lightbulbs are easy to change because the fitting and switch last 20-50 years and the Tungsten filament lasted 1 year.

I've not seen a count, but I suspect most TV sets go out of service not because a backlight failed, and the backlights are expected to last, I don't know, 10 years gradually becoming dimmer but with headspace in the original brilliance to make up for that.

Ours still sits in a space in the room that was defined by a big CRT.

Move to a wall and a projector ...

MidgePhoto Sep 27

@rpin42 @pjf
... and again we find the single point light source is expected to burn out before the rest of the kit is obsolete, so open a panel and gently screw in a replacement.

Or some other approach. Swings back and forth.

prokyonid Sep 27

@Photo55 @pjf about the car thing: For the US market at least, the peaks for reliable underhood components / easy to access underhood components have come and gone, circa the late 00s.

Nowadays, we have alternators that fail before 3 years of age and require 8 labor hours to change, plus draining the coolant system and recovering the refrigerant to access them.

MidgePhoto Sep 27

@prokyonid @pjf
Alternators are severely obsolete!
The replacement subassembly probably does need to be where changing it is quite a job, and needs cooling if there's combustion nearby.

(The F1 cars nowadays can do a restart after stopping near the track, and move off quite smoothly, because they lead the move to brake/re/generator/starter that has reached other hybrid ICE vehicles.)

prokyonid Sep 27

@Photo55 @pjf It's engineering oversight at best, although I suspect the true reason has more to do with cutting costs, both in production and in design. Everything on the belt drive should be easily accessible without having to remove a bumper or lower a subframe.

MidgePhoto Sep 28

@prokyonid @pjf
That's awful. We know how to do that.
But having an alternator as a device sapping power off the engine is an old idea.

prokyonid Sep 28

@Photo55 @pjf only if you're building a hybrid

MidgePhoto Sep 28

@prokyonid @pjf

If not, it is an even older idea!

Sin Vega Sep 27

@pjf hell yeah! great work

@pjf I think we should bill the vendor with the time wasted.

Mactonex Sep 27

@pjf we really need a repairability tax. Have an independent body rate each product for repairability. The less repairable, the higher the tax.

Lukas Grossar Sep 27

@pjf What's your definition of "modern" TV? Mine is from 2013 and still going strong and I enjoy the fact that it's a dumb TV and would love to repair it if it would break.

@pjf sheer bloody mindedness is so very underrated as an expression of consumer preference. Companies that choose to take an anti consumer stance? Fuck the effort required, let them burn!
35 hrs to build a ciruit you refuse to sell as spares? I'll send you photos just so you know I built it anyway.

Daniel Brotherston Sep 27

@pjf FWIW there was an analysis of TVs and the failure of the backlights is a trade off TV makers have made. They make the TV thin (which sells) but also means the backlights have poor cooling and heat up and destroy themselves much faster.

I'm not saying TV makers are intentionally designing TVs to fail, but they are prioritizing features that drive sales today AND tomorrow rather than features which make a better TV in the long run.

Kerplunk Sep 27

Hi Paul, every saved device helps 🙂

Backlight fails are one common issue, as you say a horrible repair job.

Very common power supply capacitors failed due cheap crappy components and insufficient ventilation.

For anyone diy ing that job make really sure the mains connection is removed and capacitors in the supply are all discharged, especially the bigger, usually 400 volt ones, they can kill in an instant.

Even experienced technicians have been sloppy for the last time.

George Dinwiddie Sep 28

@Kerplunk @pjf It’s current, not voltage, that kills. In 1968 I hit the second anode of a color TV — around 30 kV if I remember correctly. It contracted my muscles so violently that it spun me around 270 degrees. Fortunately that arm was grounded on the side of the chassis so the current didn’t pass near my heart.

Kerplunk Sep 28

@gdinwiddie @pjf

Current kills yes, I was talking about ensuring large capacitors in a switching power supply are discharged, the voltage usually 400 is printed on them, easy to see. The capacity is not something many people understand.

The current capability is high and delivery with a pressure of 400 volts instant, even with very dry skin.

After opening the cover immediately discharge all larger capacitors using an insulated tool. Go round them again, check for voltage before working

George Dinwiddie Sep 28

@Kerplunk
The voltage marked on a capacitor is what the dielectric can withstand, not the current charge of the capacitor. It could be charged to that voltage, but not likely as the circuit is usually designed with some room to provide reliability.

That said, a charged capacitor can really bite you, but it discharges quickly and unless it interferes with your heart rhythm is unlikely to do more than a skin burn, if that.

George Dinwiddie Sep 28

BTW, a cathode ray tube (TV CRT) makes a very high quality capacitor. The second anode is a coating on the inside of the glass. There's a similar conductive coating on the outside that is connected to ground for shielding.

I once picked up a picture tube that had been sitting on the bench for a week or more, and accidentally touched the second anode connection. That was from a black and white set, so was probably only charged to 12,000 volts or so, but it got my attention.

Dr. BauBauS Sep 27

@pjf
The same experience when I fixed a microwave. It was a blown up fuse.
To reach it I had to unscrew 20 tamper-proof screws (Had to use a dremmel since I had no appropriate screwdrived). The fuse was on a board that was sandwiched between 2 other boards IN THE MIDDLE. It took me over 3 hours total work.
The same device was available at Walmart for 49$.
This is obviously done in purpose, is hostile design.

Emile Snyder Sep 29

@BauBauS @pjf devices with batteries not designed for replacement are another egregious offender. It's most common with phones/tablets/laptops, but my auto darkening welding helmet recently stopped working because its batteries are shot and I discovered that the two CR2032 coin cells it uses are *soldered to the board*

@pjf This can only be fixed by requiring those companies to make it possible. Otherwise optimizing for more profit is, well, more profitable.

Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC Sep 27

@pjf I have seen this trend not only in TVs but in all kinds of consumer electronics. While devices that can be repaired easily still exist, most have become unnecessarily hard to take apart and to put back together.

lemgandi Sep 27

Might be worth it if your replacement option is a "smart TV".

Bruce Elrick Sep 27

@pjf
This reminds me of this video... Many (most?) of the failures are backlight LEDs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chcwz5LYiHs

2+ Year Longevity Update! More Failures and What’s Next For Our 100+ TV Test

YouTube

mcSlibinas Sep 27

@pjf hehe, repair punk! 👍

@pjf do you mind sharing the brand and model ?

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Sep 27

@pjf well done mate, I've fixed a few of these and it's a horrible fiddly delicate anxiety-making job, you're a hero for even trying it.

Backlights and boards are in the back of the telly and anyone with a decent head on their shoulders would assume you fix them from the back, but the bastards who make these things want you to go in from the front and tenderly disassemble sheets of razor-thin glass.

I'm all in favour of a law requiring power supplies and backlights to come out from the back with like four screws, and if it makes the tellies five mil thicker and fifty quid more expensive, so jolly well be it

Joan Albright Sep 27

@pjf I also do this. (Though not with a TV. My talents run to the mechanical, not to the electrical.)

nixCraft 🐧Sep 27

@pjf be careful not to put video tutorial online. they might sue you for releasing the proprietary info or some legal bullshit . it is that stupid even big like apple tried to take down youtbers for showing those videos.

Christoph Begall Sep 27

@shiftphones will it be possible to easily repair a broken backlight with your new big screen that is currently in Development?

Martin Lepage Sep 27

@pjf You are not alone in doing this! I recently got scammed while buying a used frontal washing machine (I ignored the red flags - my fault!)

The problem ? It spined for about half a cycle, then would just not spin again. I took it apart trying to find the issue (I'm no expert, but it's a washing machine, how complicated could it be?)

After a couple of weeks of tinkering in my spare time, I finally found the issue : the motor uses brushes to make it spin, and they were simply worn-out.

A simple fix, right ? Wrong ! The brushes were not available in Canada. I could order them from Europe or Australia, but I couldn't find them on Amazon.

A whole washing machine useless because of a part that costs pennies to make ! Planned obsolescence by part rarity is a thing :/

In the end, I bought brushes that were very close to what I needed, opened them, sanded them down to the correct dimensions, resoldered them in the original holders, and BAM. It works !

TAKE THAT CAPITALISM !

@pjf I’m currently using two 24” 1920x1200 panels that were e wasted some years ago due to the backlight inverter board going bad. They were such a pain to get to because nothing’s made to be repaired anymore

mrflash818 Sep 27

@pjf If comfortable, perhaps show the steps you did, and a pix or two, on an online journal.

Then others might find it, and it will help them, too.

Nicole Parsons Sep 27

Car makers also make similar design decisions to increase obsolescence.
https://www.theautopian.com/tell-us-about-how-an-automakers-poor-design-for-serviceability-made-your-repair-job-a-total-nightmare/

Coatings that attract rodents

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/how-to-protect-your-car-from-rodents-a5816950285/

Which engineer thought it a good idea to require removing the engine to do basic repairs or maintenance?

https://www.thedrive.com/news/41274/this-subaru-head-gasket-repair-started-with-an-engine-removal-and-that-was-the-easy-part

https://www.thedrive.com/guides-and-gear/replacing-my-2015-volkswagen-jetta-diesels-engine-almost-defeated-me

Brad Martin Sep 27

@pjf yeah I discovered the hard way that modern TVs have bare silicon dies directly bonded to flat flex cables hovering in midair immediately behind where you have to pry to crack open the plastic bezel the last time I tried to repair a failing backlight. If they'd set out to intentionally booby-trap this thing they couldn't have done a better job.

@pjf my last TV needed new backlights. Took it apart to verify, could barely source a part (AliExpress only). Put it back together temporarily so I wouldn't loose the screws waiting on shipping and broke the screen in the process 😅

Thankfully that happened BEFORE I clicked the order button

You S Blues Sep 27

@pjf Well done! I replaced the backlight inverter board in my TV ($25) and that was fairly trivial. I couldn’t imagine tackling the backlights themselves.

Snozzedandlost Sep 27

@pjf I did this too! Picked a Vizio 50” TV off the side of the road. Remote control was in a sandwich bag next to it with batteries included. I took that as a sign tbe TV at least worked. It did but had dim spots. So began my first adventure dismantling a TV. You are right I had to basically complete disassemble it. But I fixed it and now it works great!

Ham Ninja (Chris Claborne)Sep 27

@pjf You should publish the brand. A campaign to avoid brands that do this might change behavior .

mastodonphan HAS MOVED Sep 27

@pjf #RightToRepair

Buttercup Sep 27

@pjf Yes fantastic.How about putting that effort in finding competent solutions in how to feed Africa?Children still dying of hunger while you're tangling with stupid backlights.I still got and old Röhrenbildschirm.Way easier to deal with and also some Phillips screens from 20 years ago.They work.I am fine. When there was the Mondlandung in 61 we were supposed to write an article about how fantastic this was.I only complained why they waste money when people starve in India and Africa,got an A+.

UpLateGeek Sep 27

@pjf the hospitality TVs we use at work are excellent for repairability, literally takes longer to get it back on the wall mount than it takes to replace the backlight. And they send a technician out to replace them for free under warranty. They also cost 5 times more than a consumer TV, so probably not worth it.

Nohaironheed Sep 27

@pjf this is why I do my own car repairs. I don't know much about cars but will spend the time researching and hours doing something a garage could do in a couple of hours. Anything more than the most basic of repairs will out value the car itself, so I keep it going myself out of spite and because ultimately, it shouldn't need to be replaced ... yet.

craignicol Sep 27

@pjf a great example of why right to repair is only one part of the battle.

jetmakerbrit Sep 27

@pjf Nice work! This is why I have a Framework laptop and still use a iPhone XR I bought on eBay. I still remember lugging a broken CRT TV around house to house as a student planning to fix it. Finally I found the replacement pots and got it working again and used it all thru college.

JD "Rant Paul" Paul Sep 27

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