Mastodawn

Lee Cremeans Sep 15, 2025

Why Americans Don't Walk To School - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lShDhGn5e5s

this neighborhood he filmed looks so much like America-as-I-know-her that it hurts. When I was a child, I lived in a housing development, a separate loop from the main road, nothing but houses on both sides for the whole loop. Sounds safe for kids, right? I was utterly forbidden from crossing the street ever, for any reason. In the three years I lived there, two children I knew were flattened by cars. One was in a wheelchair for years, the other had permanent brain damage. And we were lucky to have a sidewalk the whole length of the loop - which would quickly disappear beyond its edge; walking anywhere else was impossible, it was an island in a sea of high-speed roads.

The next development we lived in, the school had a street-by-street map of who was and wasn't allowed to walk to school. It was in theory a 15 minute walk, but we were forbidden because 10 of that would be on a highway with absolutely no accommodations for walking alongside it. There was a secret path through the woods that some kids used. There was a shopping center about as far in the other direction with, again, absolutely no way to walk there (and no busses). I grew up trapped in lonely fortresses in a sea of concrete, and I am still not used to the freedom I have in Europe to just... go places and do things.

Why Americans Don't Walk to School Anymore

YouTube

gudenau Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea I wonder how different health would be here if we could walk more places.

James Widman Sep 15, 2025

@gudenau @0xabad1dea and not just in terms of physical health, but also mental health.

We are inherently social animals; we *need* to be able to be able to walk around and encounter other people serendipitously.

Car infrastructure suppresses & atrophies this aspect of our humanity; it limits our movements, and thus limits opportunities to connect with other people in ways that don't involve computer screens.

So *of course* nearly everyone (both kids & adults) is terminally online.

FoolishOwl Sep 15, 2025

@JamesWidman @gudenau @0xabad1dea The purpose of suburbs is to isolate people.

Jargoggles Sep 15, 2025

@foolishowl @JamesWidman @gudenau @0xabad1dea
At least so that a certain type of person could isolate themselves from certain types of people. The fact that it isolated that certain type of person from themselves is more of a by-product.

Of course, you're right, though. In the end, the purpose of a system is what it does.

FoolishOwl Sep 15, 2025

@jargoggles @JamesWidman @gudenau @0xabad1dea From what I recall of Mike Davis's Planet of Slums, for a time following WW2, the US was unusual, in that urban cores were associated with poverty and suburbs with prosperity. It's been the other way around in much of the world, and with gentrification, the US has been shifting towards the more common model.

Aaron Sep 17, 2025

@jargoggles @foolishowl @JamesWidman @gudenau @0xabad1dea "White flight", amiright?

starfrost Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea Wut. This sounds like hell and would very seriously lead to me becoming insane

gbsills Sep 15, 2025

@starfrost @0xabad1dea All those MAHA folks should read this and understand that the inability of kids to walk places is at least as big a threat to their health as diet.

James Widman Sep 15, 2025

@starfrost @0xabad1dea
> This sounds like hell and would very seriously lead to me becoming insane

Correct. It's not uncommon to need a car to go anywhere—to school, to work, to local grocery stores.

Now on top of that, add easy access to guns, because "we believe in freedom".

(i mean, we don't believe in freedom to walk places, or the freedom to leave your job without losing access to medical care, but we *do* believe in the freedom to threaten our neighbors every second of every day.)

Ratsnake Games 🔞Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea Wait - the school literally *bans* children from walking?

abadidea Sep 15, 2025

@ratsnakegames yeah cuz they'd die

Ratsnake Games 🔞Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea I understand the reasoning but I'm baffled that a school even has the authority to do that

Zimmie Sep 15, 2025

@ratsnakegames @0xabad1dea It’s more that if the school discovers a child who they think shouldn’t be walking to school has walked to school, they report the parents to the police for child endangerment. It’s technically banning the parents from allowing the kids to walk.

Mab_813 Sep 15, 2025

@bob_zim @ratsnakegames @0xabad1dea

😳

Popeye Otaku Sep 15, 2025

@ratsnakegames @0xabad1dea oh, America is full of small local non-governmental organizations that have wide legal authority, just lookit HOAs

potion_genderqueer

@0xabad1dea yeah... and here? By the time kids are school age they're riding to the shops along with their parent(s), and also riding to school, because fietspaden are designed to keep littles safe...

It's still not great for walking. It's still a minimum of 20 minutes' walk to food or services. But the top end of what a Yank would call a subdivision is inaccessible to cars, which keeps the speeds reasonable and the kids who play here safe, and with a bicycle, it's five minutes to two different sets of shops, and maybe six or seven to a third... and also, there are fietspaden even along the freeways... if I want to bicycle to the airport, I can. Try doing that in an Amerikaanse city. (At least some American cities have rail to their airports... but niet fietspaden.)

and, empathy for being trapped and car-dependent...

Aaron Sep 17, 2025

@stonebear2 @0xabad1dea American here: What is a fietspaden and how do I get one? :)

potion_genderqueer

Fietspad /FEETS-pod/, pl. fietspaden n. (NL) A Dutch bicycle path, usually characterised by red-dyed asphalt or sometimes red klinker (paving stones). Fietspaden are often grade-separated from large-vehicle traffic and sometimes even from sidewalks too.

The best way to get a fietspad west of 70W longitude is to form a fietsersbond, a bicycle union, and get to lobbying. Expect massive screaming and moaning and gnashing of teeth from the car lobby, and you'll have to figure out how it gets paid for and get _that_ passed too, and for Seldon's sake, if the bike lane is just paint or flexible barriers that cars can cross with impunity? it's not bike infrastructure, it's _car_ infrastructure, don't let them stick you with that! There needs to be a kerb or other grade separation or you're going to keep getting people killed.

Oh, and while you're at it, see if you can get _dedicated_ lanes for streetcars. May as well go all-in...

Dieu Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea born life issues, I guess.

Phil Burg (he/him)Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea I've always been super confused about this.

Here in Australia we have lots of suburban streets with no footpaths - so we walk on the grass instead, where the footpath would be.

Are the houses just built up to the street, with no setback?

abadidea Sep 15, 2025

@Standard_Phil it's usually more that there are trees up to the very edge of the high-speed road, as in this video, and, as he also mentions, the grass is filled with poison ivy.

also, Americans like to shoot people who walk on their land.

Lyle Solla-Yates Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea @Standard_Phil Yes or fences and bushes. There was a decades long fear campaign here that providing safe space for people to walk and roll would destroy property values and cause “urban blight” and crime so government and nonprofits and developers and private property owners worked together to make sure there was as little safe space as possible near homes and businesses. The fear campaign worked well and it is very hard and expensive to fix parcel by parcel.

Aaron Sep 17, 2025

@0xabad1dea @Standard_Phil Don't forget the lack of crosswalks.

Aaron Sep 17, 2025

@0xabad1dea @Standard_Phil And utter disregard for pedestrian safety.

Aaron Sep 17, 2025

@0xabad1dea @Standard_Phil One of the threats is, people think it's hilarious to swerve at pedestrians and bicyclers and watch the look on their faces as they fear for their lives.

piegames Sep 18, 2025

@Standard_Phil @0xabad1dea how does this work with baby strollers, mobility aids, or other small wheeled vehicles? How does it work when it rains and everything is muddy (does that even happen in Australia)?

Phil Burg (he/him)Sep 18, 2025

@piegames @0xabad1dea Oh, it works about as well as you'd expect!

Most places near the coast (something like 90% of us live within two hours drive of the coast) get plenty of rain.

And you need to be comfortable walking without aids or wheels when you're on the grass, so it's definitely not a perfect system.

run_atalanta 😷💯Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea I got bused to my elementary school grades 1 & 2. After that, we just had to get there on our own if we lived within a mile of the school. There was a white line painted (to denote the pedestrian walkway, a la modern "bike lanes") on one side of the road that led between the 5way intersection where some of the intersecting roads had sidewalks, up to the school proper.

But then again, this was back when smoking was allowed on airplanes, and drunk driving was still normalized.

I believe Chandler has it right: We have too much Safety.

https://youtu.be/cOLqEZ-hLOY?si=1FIsPRHg8NxlJ1o9

Whoop

YouTube

Aaron Sep 17, 2025

@run_atalanta @0xabad1dea IDK. We walked to elementary school when I was a kid. On the way home one day, an older kid threatened my brother with a gun, among other things. (If you are wondering about the "other things", it should suffice to say that when my dad discovered the identity of the older kid, he tried to murder him in front of the police with a hammer, and though they did stop him, they didn't arrest him for the attempt.) Maybe we just have to much safety of certain types, and not enough of others.

run_atalanta 😷💯Sep 17, 2025

@hosford42 @0xabad1dea

But you were allowed out of your parents sight. There are kids today who have abso_fn_lutely no sense of what danger might even look like - because they've never been allowed in a situation where they'd have to look out for themselves.

At my *cough* institute of higher learning - students will leave their backpacks/laptops/WALLETS sitting on a table in a public building, and go somewhere else for long periods of time, because they feel the ever present cameras will keep them safe.

They have no idea of how to keep themselves safe. I foresee some very bad outcomes when these youth step out into the Real World. Where it isn't safe. The institution tries really hard to make them aware of the risks and dangers of online scams and bad actors - but "in person" is always safe.

And those that happily remain in their safety bubble, probably will never learn how to built bridges of trust that lead to real safety. And empathy. And real-live community safety nets.

I hope you and your brother learned the lesson of personal situational awareness. It can save your life in other situatiions too - especially if you're out with a bunch of friends who decide to "go do this fun thing." Or simply practicing how to get out of your House/Car/Office/hotel room in case of a fire.

Do you know how to get out of a submerged car? If an explosion takes out the side the building you're in right now - but your room is intact - What do you do?

Safety - real safety comes from within.
Because that same older kid with a gun - is still out there (OK - maybe not literally that kid) waiting for the next "not a care in the world" adult to wander by so they can be robbed/assaulted.

Cameras don't stop that.
Learning how to sense/avoid stops that. And if you're too damn "safe" to care about your surroundings. then ...

you were endangered by too much safety.

(soapbox off)

run_atalanta 😷💯Sep 17, 2025

@hosford42 @0xabad1dea

(ok - dragging soapbox out for one last thought)

SInce the initial post was about freedom to (walk/access places) experienced in Europe vs where they grew up - and I say this as a car collector and driving hobbiest:

It's all that "safety" - and I'm looking at you Volvo for starting this - that is advertised for vehicles, that completetly obliterates any thought or concern for "people not in my car." Lexus "you're own private space" where you can drive over small children on the way to school, except they are beign driven by their parents in their own safety cage.

The US of "aaaaaaa" has really screwed itself out of the kind of livable communities that exist in old europe and other large metropolitan cities around the world (or so I've heard - haven't traveled to them myself).

In Toronto - there are pedestrian crosswalks with Lighted Flashing signs to alert drivers there are people using the crosswalk. Pedestrians still have to watch for cars, but general expectation is the lights will grab the attention of the drivers to look. The infrastructure is there (along with some pretty nice bus service).

In Suburban Sprawl Corners, USA, you'll see the kind of car-centric, no sidewalk kinda thing as called out in the video. That's the Safety of Car Travel - because you've been sold a living room on wheels with an excellent infotainment center and hecks- we're promising Self-driving in the next upgrade! YOU - the owner of this (hunka junk) will be totally safe from any annoyances, no matter how petty, like the dishwasher at your favorite Bistro having to take bicycle on the highway to get to work, because there are no buses. And the ubers are too expensive for the dishwasher to be able to use daily. Your self-driving car might just smack them off their bicycle as you fly by, by you won't have to suffer by having to wait for a slower vehicle, nay, no waiting for pedestrians, You Are SAFE.

The Safety of the Suburbs.

Means it's not "in the city" and isn't as Dangerous as the City.

Too damn much "safety"

Everyone who drives in a city needs to spend 2 weeks a year driving a full-size schoolbus with a manual transmission, and a live load of kids.

Everyone who drives anywhere needs to annually bicycle (or take an electric wheelchair) on a 10 mile trip from the DMV office to a grocery store that is a minimum of 5 miles from the DMV office. And bring back a dated receipt from the store to prove the trip.

Everyone. Not paying off the cops to avoid. EVERY DRIVER.

You do it, or no car for you.

Maybe then, the infrqastructure for pedestrians, and public transportation will suddenly be required.

For safety, you know.

(this is my real soapbox).

Aaron Sep 17, 2025

@run_atalanta @0xabad1dea My brother will never be okay after that experience. He still has psychological scars that screw with his thinking. We were allowed out of our parents' sight, but our parents were being even more trusting than those folks who leave their wallets out without supervision. It was their children, not their wallets. If only we had been instructed not to take alleyways as shortcuts, or taught how to protect ourselves from bad actors.

run_atalanta 😷💯Sep 17, 2025

"If only we had been instructed not to take alleyways as shortcuts, or taught how to protect ourselves from bad actors."

Seems like that is where this started:
Your parents felt too safe, that you kids were safe. Until you weren't.

I'm sorry that this happened. I hope you and your brother look within for growth and healing to get past it.

It's doesn't matter how long ago the trauma was - today is always a good day to work on healing the trauma.

Maybe work on teaching life skills to your kids, and help them be safe in a very unsafe world. But to do that - you'll have to leave your own safety bubble, and grow.

Just read all the posts from our fedi friends who talk about their lives and gender transistions. It takes courage to fundamentally change your circumstances. Find your inner Cowardly Lion and roar.

Daniel González Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea This is truly something an european mind can't comprehend. Just today I accompanied my kid to school by walking and taking a regular city bus.
I've already seen this kind of non infrastructure for pedestrians, but I though it was only in developing countries. Maybe I was right.

shuppy, in PER Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea do you know if the thing about each homeowner being responsible for the maintenance of their bit of sidewalk was widespread? or is it just a new jersey thing? that really stuck out to me :o

abadidea Sep 15, 2025

@shuppy it would vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. the US loves to have a completely different set of laws every ten miles. Where I lived in Massachusetts – I think the local government handled things like repairing conccrete cracks (eventually), but clearing snow and ice was the legal responsibility of the nearest house/business.

Which means that every time it snowed, which it does fairly often in Massachusetts, the sidewalk would be a patchwork of different random stretches of well-cleared, poorly cleared and not cleared at all (feel free to plow through, you can always sue the homeowner when you slip and hurt yourself!)

gudenau Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea @shuppy In Michigan the roads were done by the city (IIRC) and I think the side walks by major roads. The residential sidewalks and driveways were all homeowners though. We had a really nice snow thrower that did side walks in a single pass.

But yeah, as an adult this feels like it should be a state level thing.

Steggy Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea @shuppy when we moved to the UK from the US, we were surprised that no one cleared snow off the path in front of their house. It was just us and the one other American woman on our road. Granted, a lot less snow than we got in the US, but still very slippery.

Emelia/Emi Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea @shuppy IIRC sidewalk maintenance itself varies even by city/town in MA, but yeah, MA state law is that the property owner is responsible for clearing it after it snows. Boston has a pretty big problem with absentee landlords trying to foist that responsibility onto tenants in smaller multi-unit buildings, when it's legally a common space the landlord is responsible for, and code enforcement being pretty useless about doing anything more than "warnings" (Single-family dwellings do allow the landlord to make it the responsibility of the occupant AFAIK? Because it's not "shared" between multiple leases)

(IMO the best way to do it, if they can't just do municipal clearing like with streets, is to just unilaterally clear the snow from noncompliant properties and bill the owner as part of the fine. Higher than market rates, of course, unless there's a good excuse)

Klara in the hidden land Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea @shuppy Even in Wisconsin and Illinois, also places of significant winter weather, it's like this. Same deal with Pennsylvania.

I haven't spent enough time in Minnesota to be sure, but I suspect this is pretty widespread.

Midwestern culture, at least, definitely places a lot of importance on doing your part to manage your segment of the snow, but of course that doesn't mean everyone does, it just provides a socially approved form of shaking your head at the people who don't.

Daniel Landau Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea @shuppy here in Finland clearing out snow from the sidewalks is also for the nearest house to do and for the most part it works out reasonably well, but it is indeed a patchwork of various quality here too.

Tony Yarusso Sep 17, 2025

@shuppy @0xabad1dea Fun fact: That clearing snow and ice from sidewalks thing violates the federal ADA, so if anyone feels like pushing back on it the city attorney should panic and advise the city to ack down.

Noodlemaz Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea I tried walking around a bit when we moved to CA from UK
Quickly stopped doing that for the most part.

You feel like an alien, an afterthought, a wrongness. And it's so BORING

Steggy Sep 15, 2025

@noodlemaz @0xabad1dea haha, I got used to walking most places in the UK, and then in the US sometimes I’d walk from one shopping center to the other one across the street; there were no sidewalks or crossings, and I felt very out of place and could almost feel people staring at me and wondering what I was doing.

TrimTab 🇺🇦Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea
If you let corporations and for profit police and paramedics design your cities, stop being surprised by the hell holes you call home.

I have family who quit civil engineering jobs in disgust at how corrupt the design of US cities is. Police design the speed traps and lobbyists eliminate sidewalks and bicycle infrastructure. Asset forfeiture and opulent police balls enrich leadership. Conflicts of interest abound in horrifying number.

LFpete Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea
This reminds me of my years as a pedestrian in Motown. On snow days, the few of us employees who used public transportation would show up for work and then go back home, as everybody else was snowbound in the burbs.

I wondered what children and old people did in the suburbs -- before and after driver's licenses. If they went out for a walk, where did that walk go?

Azarilhⓥ Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea Imagine walking.

Azarilhⓥ Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea As someone that doesn't even own a car, i can't even imagine how boring it must be to live in USA. I heard Canada is similar, unfortunately.

abadidea Sep 15, 2025

@Azarilh Canada is similar in this specific regard but if you’re being forced to choose, go Canada imo…

Extra Lime Sep 15, 2025

@Azarilh @0xabad1dea

I'm sure many places in Canada are worse than many places in the US but I want to share that as far as I know, US suburbs seems so much worse than Canadian suburbs on average. In Canada, suburbs are smaller, less isolated and have a corner store in the middle. Some are really isolated for cars but not for pedestrians or cyclists.

Oberst Enzian Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea I walked to school every day until high school. In high school, I took public transportation to school every day.

Y’all have weird parents in that they deprived you of your autonomy. Maybe that’s why it feels like most of the folks around me lack the ability to act sans someone giving them explicit permission to do so? 🤷🏾‍♂️

abadidea Sep 15, 2025

@oberstenzian … it’s not the parents. I’m talking about places with no public transportation and no sidewalks. You’ll just die.

Oberst Enzian Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea Knowing how Americans drive… yeah you’re right about that. I forget that everyone isn’t in areas built out for folks on foot.

We’re all being deprived of something really important by this situation.

ShawnT 🔧🐀Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea In my tiny hometown, I lived in a gov't housing project on the edge of town and had to leave my rough neighborhood, cross a 35mph stretch of highway, walk past a metal recycling plant, cross a triple set of railroad tracks (hopefully nothing was parked on it; get climbing!), cross a second highway on a 45mph section, and pass a power substation just to get to high school. It got easier with a bike, until someone stole the bike from the office. The struggle for independence is real.

Yawni 🏳️‍🌈▲Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea After driving there with a rental I the US... are drivers licenses just handed out. It was more terrible the narrower the road were.

abadidea Sep 15, 2025

@YawnEMIT not having a driver’s license is a death sentence for anyone who needs to work to live so yes, the requirements for obtaining and keeping one are minimal.

Jacob Christian Munch-Andersen Sep 15, 2025

@YawnEMIT @0xabad1dea No requirement of formal training, a relative can teach you, and you might pass the test even if that relative did a really poor job.

On top the penalties for rotten driving pretty much amount to fines, so anyone somewhat well off don't have to care about the law. (But word has it most police only care about policing black people, so being white might be enough.)

abadidea Sep 15, 2025

@NohatCoder @YawnEMIT in many districts, they're given quotas for how many traffic tickets they have to write per week. they get in trouble if they don't find enough reasons, so yes, they just start manufacturing on-paper offenses of anyone if they have to.

however, setting up confusing and conflicting signage outside the poorest, least white neighborhood is a classic for this...

Yawni 🏳️‍🌈▲Sep 15, 2025

@NohatCoder @0xabad1dea Thats a shitty system.. and racist as fuck

Mel Sep 15, 2025

@0xabad1dea this is a big part of why my husband and I choose to live where we do here in the US. Our neighborhood is full of sidewalks and connected to parks, schools, and businesses. My kids have been walking to school or their bus stop since they started school and have been roaming the rest of the city on public transport since they were around 8. We almost moved 10 years ago but I couldn’t bring myself to trap my kids in an unwalkable neighborhood.