James Gleick

Protest is not illegal. Protesters are not illegals.

[Source: U.S. Constitution]

Jun 8 at 2:57pmWeb
Show threadbytebroJun 8

@gleick

Well, yes. But what you seem to have now is an executive branch that doesn't give a stuff about said Constitution, and a legislative branch that cheer them on, and a judicial branch that are largely bought and paid for.

Show threadEndicottRoad59Jun 8
@gleick It wasn't illegal at Kent state, and it's not illegal now.
Show threadPaul SuttonJun 8

@gleick

I get the impression people in power are too scared to stand up to trump, so this will get worse, trump wants thing HIS way regardless of the law, the constiution or even international law (e.g trade). Once that level of fear reaches a certain threshold, then you have a dictatorship.

Trump wants to run for a 3rd term, this is not legal but he will find a way of doing so, he has already said people won't need to vote, that suggests to me there won't be an election in 2028 or 9 (not sure).

Show threadStanleyHOOTZZJun 8
@gleick
Kent State, here I was a lil redneck-commie hating American, gosh 55 years gone jus like that.
After Vietnam, my older brother one first cousin and two second cousins had served 5 tours altogether.
By the time I was old enough to serve, they were telling me not to join up because of their experiences in Vietnam
50 Years Later: Kent State Shooting | NBC Nightly News
https://youtu.be/hUzlpIxXbtM?si=XitxCpMqMi35HZw7
50 Years Later: Kent State Shooting | NBC Nightly News

YouTube
Show thread(((Cindy Weinstein)))Jun 8

@gleick

If the federal government is invading California, as if it were a country of its own (of our own), can we secede now?

Show threadDarwin WoodkaJun 8

@CindyWeinstein @gleick

It's not the first time. We'll protest and march and laugh them the fuck out. They're not strong, they're weak, and showing their weakness.

Show threadArchaeoIainJun 8
@CindyWeinstein @gleick Ask to become a province of Canada. It may be against the US Constitution, but the ruler does not seem to care about the Constitution
Show thread(((Cindy Weinstein)))Jun 8

@ArchaeoIain @gleick

great idea!

Show threadRev Nathan Ⓥ↔️🇺🇦🇨🇦🇵🇸🇬🇱Jun 8
@CindyWeinstein @ArchaeoIain @gleick honestly I would support Illinois becoming a Canadian province.
Show threadPeter GleickJun 8

@CindyWeinstein @gleick

From another Gleick:
23 years ago (!) I wrote this column in the Los Angeles Times suggesting that maybe California should be an independent nation and join the European Union.
It's equally tongue-in-cheek (and relevant) today:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-dec-29-oe-gleick29-story.html

Dude, Maybe They'll Throw In an Awesome Accent

Proposals have been circulating for years to split California into two separate states.

Los Angeles Times
Show threadyuhasz01Jun 8

@petergleick @CindyWeinstein @gleick

Sate of California has the 5th largest economy in the world...

Show threaddecapitaeJun 8

@gleick If someone calls this "keeping order" they need to reassess their priviledged racism-fueled lifestyle and rethink their hubris.

Picking the side of lazy and weak minded conqueror-wannabes may be easier and provide you comfort for a short time, but it will never make you right let alone anything but self absorbed and a detriment to all of those around you.

The supporters of the Constitution of the former USoA will prevail.

Show threadCameron PurdyJun 8

@gleick As I said elsewhere:

The LA thing is all about fomenting excuses to turn the military loose. Whether it's to show how strong and manly the orange erectile dysfunctioning hitler is, or whether it's because he actually wants to use the military to install himself as king doesn't really matter, because regardless, we're on that path now.

It is shocking how quickly he "freedum" gun nutz people went pro-tyrant.

Show threadLevkaJun 8

@cpurdy @gleick

Anyone who believes that #neoNazis, #WhiteSupremacists, and #MAGAts are the only people in America who own guns and know how to use them, is deeply deluded. We just don't wave them around at demos, that's all. But we *are* ready to defend ourselves.

#CivilWar2 wouldn't be fought between states or regions. It would be fought between neighbors. It would be a bloodbath. It would also be America's national suicide. The world would pick our bones and we'd deserve it. A lot of people think we deserve it already.

Show threadStarravenJun 8

@LevZadov @cpurdy @gleick

I'm certainly hoping for it, but your country threatened to annex mine, so I absolutely think yiu deserve it.

Show threadLevkaJun 8

@starraven @cpurdy @gleick

I don't deserve it. It's not *my* country. I don't own a single inch of it. I'm a renter, a landless peasant, and a useless eater. Don't blame me.

Show threadStarravenJun 8

@LevZadov @cpurdy @gleick

You are only blameless if you are not a citizen (not whether you claim you are or not, legal reality only). If you are, you share blame, regardless of how or if you voted. Either fight it, or shut it.

Show threadLevkaJun 8

@starraven @cpurdy @gleick

(1.) "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." ---Emma Goldman

(2.) I've been actively opposing fascism for 60 years, with my fingers online and my fists on the street. I've been beaten, robbed, and locked up for something I didn't do. I'm still at it. I'm a lifer. What do you do to thwart the burgeoning menace of fascism? I'm too old and disabled to fight in the streets anymore. Are you young and able bodied enough to kick a Nazi's butt? If so, why are you attacking me instead?

Show threadStarravenJun 8

@LevZadov @cpurdy @gleick

Because I have to prepare for the country you said you belong to ( and I quote "The world would pick our bones and we'd deserve it. A lot of people think we deserve it already." ) to invade mine. You have a 60 year track record of failure, all of you, stretching from Vietnam and Kent State to the present day, so, yes, I'm hoping for a complete collapse of the US with bodies piled high.

Show threadLevkaJun 9

@starraven @cpurdy @gleick

I do not tolerate ad hominem attacks in my timeline.

This personis blocked.

Show threadStarravenJun 9

@LevZadov @cpurdy @gleick

Another one from kolektiva runs and hides. They really have nothing to offer.

Show threadMx VerdaJun 8
@gleick No one is "an illegal".
Show threadJames GleickJun 8
@MxVerda You’re repeating my own point back to me.
Show threadMx VerdaJun 8
@gleick No, I am not. I am broadening "protesters are not illegals" to "any person is not an illegal". Your point is about protesters; mine is about the concept of anyone being labelled that.
Show threadDarwin WoodkaJun 8

@gleick

People are not illegal, they are undocumented. Because our immigration process is a fucking mess and the GOP REFUSED to fix it at Trump's order. Trump created this entire situation. He wants the conflict, he wants to hurt people. That's the entire goal of the GOP at this point. They're about hurting people.

Show threadxs4me2Jun 8

@gleick

Elect a criminal, expect illegal actions…

Trump is probing a next step in absolute power.

Show threadFeygele Ⓐ Ⓥ🏳️‍⚧️Jun 8
@gleick It’s important here to note that the National Guard at Kent state was a lawful deployment made by the Governor. The deployment of the National Guard in LA is an illegal deployment by the President, which violates Posse Comitatus.
Show threadAndreas KJun 8

@biplanepilot
Curious, what does this actually mean for the deployed national guard personal? If the order is illegal, and such basics should be clear to even the simple enlisted grades, then they are basically matching on California without orders?

Criminal raiders?
@gleick

Show threadFeygele Ⓐ Ⓥ🏳️‍⚧️Jun 8
@yacc143 @gleick *Theoretically* the leadership could face charges for their actions. In practice, we’ve seen what happened to the Jan 6 insurrectionists.
Show threadDieuJun 8
@biplanepilot @yacc143 @gleick I also guess the National Guard won't be personally held responsible for illegal actions if they were following orders?
Show threadSaxicola ✅ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺Jun 8
@hllizi @biplanepilot @yacc143 @gleick
The Neurenburg trials would suggest otherwise.
Show threadFeygele Ⓐ Ⓥ🏳️‍⚧️Jun 8
@saxicola @gleick @hllizi @yacc143 The Nuremberg trials were conducted by the allies, not Germany. This situation would be different, and presumably Trump will preemptively pardon everyone involved, like how Biden preemptively pardoned Fauci, as well as how Trump has pardoned the Jan 6 insurrectionists.
Show threadAndreas KJun 8
@biplanepilot @saxicola @gleick @hllizi Yes, but the question is, would they be prosecuted under Federal or State jurisdiction? #Trump can only pardon federal prosecution.
Show threadFeygele Ⓐ Ⓥ🏳️‍⚧️Jun 8
@gleick @saxicola @yacc143 @hllizi Posse Comitatus, the law being violated, is Federal law. Unless California has a similar law, they’d be federal charges.
Show threadSaxicola ✅ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺Jun 8
@biplanepilot @gleick @hllizi @yacc143
Inded so, but the precident has been set under international law.
Show threadFeygele Ⓐ Ⓥ🏳️‍⚧️Jun 8

@saxicola @hllizi @yacc143 @gleick

Because international laws were violated by the Nazis. That’s not the case here *currently*. I’m very disturbed by this action, but I just don’t see convictions coming from it. I would be tremendously happy to be wrong. Truly.

Show threadSaxicola ✅ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺Jun 8
@biplanepilot @hllizi @yacc143 @gleick
You are probably right.
Show threadAndreas KJun 9

@saxicola
Please note, that even the famous "following orders is not an excuse" is not an invention of the Nuremberg trials or an American invention.

The military code of the Weimarer republic already had that rule and was formally valid for quite some time even in Nazi-Germany.

The issue that you face in the USA is how do you apply justice if a sizeable part of the population goes crazy and over to the dark side.

Even after an event @biplanepilot @hllizi @gleick

Show threadAndreas KJun 9

like the lost WWII, after 2-3 years the bloodlust was done and the practicalities of running a modern state without the professionals came too the front.

And suddenly the same doctors, the same civil servants and the same judges, as long they were not too prominent Nazis continued to run the country. And the denazification tribunals.

The need for experienced administrators might explain people did get away with less than a year for arson and
@biplanepilot @hllizi @gleick @saxicola

Show threadAndreas KJun 9
@saxicola
kidnapping and crimes against humanity. But, sigh, the fact that justice system was full of Nazis explains probably notes in there denazification files that such crimes were committed honourably.
@biplanepilot @hllizi @gleick
Show threadAndreas KJun 9

@biplanepilot
Sorry, international laws don't play into it overly much.

Being soundly defeated does.

The statute of the Nuremberg court literally limited it examining German war crimes.

Not Russian ones. Not American ones.

And even then it was objectively a limited success. Of the Nazis serial murderer only 500-1000 were executed (funny how historians cannot put an exact number on this)

@saxicola @hllizi @gleick

Show threadFeygele Ⓐ Ⓥ🏳️‍⚧️Jun 9
@hllizi @yacc143 @saxicola @gleick What laws define what constitutes a war crime? International ones, perhaps?
Show threadFeygele Ⓐ Ⓥ🏳️‍⚧️Jun 8
@gleick @hllizi @yacc143 When I said leadership I meant Guard leadership. Field Grade Officers.
Show threadFeygele Ⓐ Ⓥ🏳️‍⚧️Jun 8
@hllizi @yacc143 @gleick Just following orders isn’t a legal defense, but there are other complications here.
Show threadnormbrownJun 8
@biplanepilot @gleick
Evan Bernick has a good discussion of the statute allegedly in use, over at the blue site @evanbernick.bsky.social‬
Show threadDubious Blur6d ago
@normbrown @biplanepilot @gleick https://bsky.app/profile/lizagoitein.bsky.social/post/3lr46dwkom32w
Liza Goitein (@lizagoitein.bsky.social)

While the Insurrection Act authorizes deployment of active-duty armed forces, 10 USC 12406 only authorizes federalization of the Guard. Any use of active-duty troops to enforce the law under this memorandum would thus be a clear violation of the Posse Comitatus Act. 17/19

Bluesky Social
Show threadAri Gardens as a VerbJun 8
@gleick It'd be interesting to see how many of us recognize where and when that is without checking the alt text. (I knew). I was a toddler then, but cutting my teeth on Doonesbury as accessible political reading material at a kid certainly shapes a person's mind and memory in a certain way.
Show threadPoached DarklingJun 8
@gleick wrong. You are obviously not a student of statism and authoritarian rule.
Show threadJarjanJun 8
@gleick
Yet...
Show threadRabbitt@mstdn.socialJun 8
@gleick
This could be a shot of Kent State. I would have been one of the youths protesting back then.
Show threadslashJun 8

@gleick That photo looks familiar... ;) I'm old enough to remember the newscasts of this. I'm afraid we have set ourselves on a path that will require this level of evil before we can correct our course. It's going to get much worse before it gets better.

And if we don't stand and face the rifles, we'll *never* fix this. Bravo to L.A.!

Show threadDoNotPunchDownJun 8

@gleick

Tin soldiers and trump is coming

Show threadFallsMom 🌻Jun 9

@gleick

Tin soldiers and Trump is coming

#Kentstateuniversity #Ohio

Show threadThat Jay-Zippy GuyJun 9
@gleick no one is "illegal"
Show threadSellaTheChemistJun 9

@gleick Tin soldiers and Nixon coming. We're finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming… Got to get down to it, soldiers are cutting us down…  Should have been gone long ago. What if you knew her, and found her dead on the ground? How could you run when you know?

#Ohio #CSNY https://youtu.be/VOFNLQtEWZ8

Ohio (Live)

YouTube