How old am I?

I'm so old I remember when Google search provided more value than surveillance advertising.

I'm so old I remember when an operating system was not considered an advertising platform.

I'm so old I remember when "Artificial Intelligence" was a serious enquiry filled with brilliant people, and not a scam machine populated by sleazebags.

I'm so old I remember when "user" didn't mean "product".

I'm so old I remember when "corporation" didn't mean "person".

@GeePawHill

I'm so old I remember when negligent homicide was still a crime.

@Uair @GeePawHill I'm so old I remember cops got jailed for shooting someone.

@GeePawHill I distinctly remember someone telling me about this "Wikipedia" thing and me thinking it was the stupidest idea I'd ever heard of - who's going to write stuff for a free encyclopedia? And who the hell is going to use it? How could it ever grow to be a significant size?

Yeah OK I was just a teensy bit wrong about that.

@TomF @GeePawHill Same here. A community encyclopedia? That's as much use as a button on a sock.

I was so very wrong there.

@TomF @GeePawHill

For sure. The only reason it made sense to me is that I had seen Ward Cunningham's original wiki: https://wiki.c2.com/

It's one of those things that in theory couldn't have worked, but in practice did. I love those moments.

@TomF @GeePawHill I remember when I first heard about Wikipedia, and I thought, "If this works out, printed encyclopædias are over." It did work out.
@TomF @GeePawHill
Für mich ist diesbezüglich einer der größten Helden Aaron Swartz.
Film: Tot eines Internet Aktivisten
@GeePawHill
I'm so old I remember when computer games didn't show any advertisement.
@amarok @GeePawHill And were released with no bugs (usually).
@amarok
You mean before the computer games were demos that at the end told you where to mail money to receive the full game?
@GeePawHill
@GeePawHill You are absolutely right on everything that you've said. I remember in the past when Google's priority was to to offer premium value without ads but now ads are just constituting some form of nuisance to an internet user. With udm14.com one can bypass this annoying ads when surfing the internet.
@OAC102513
I'm so old, that Computers, Google, Social Networks didn' t exist. The first computer I worked with at university has to been feeded with punch cards and one got a pack of paper back with Lots of cryptic error messages. Was funny.
@GeePawHill
@GeePawHill I'm so old I can remember when I *was* one of those brilliant people, which, given the very fallible current state of my brain, feels a bit weird.

@GeePawHill

I’m so old I remember when a 1 megabyte website was considered large.

@GeePawHill You sound like a living archive of common sense in the age of algorithms.
@GeePawHill So, mid thirties, just like me?
@GeePawHill I still remember everyone using Lycos and Altavista, and that new startup from some guys, called Google. No ads, just web results.
@jonatancortes @GeePawHill remembering fireball before it was taken over by lycos :) had my first mail address @fireball.com (or .de?), wild times :D

@jonatancortes @GeePawHill just checked and found out there is an address back up there since 2016 :D it's a simple old school search engine, apparently no ads or tracks, just plain research results

www.fireball.com

@jonatancortes @GeePawHill I was definitely an Altavista guy. They even licensed our stuff for the AV Entertainment Zone. Excite had something similar on their portal and we worked with them, too. Fun times.
@GeePawHill my first website had an open guestbook and all the comments left in it were nice, no spam no trolls no bots

@GeePawHill

"Age is defined by the tragedies we witness."
SearingTruth

@GeePawHill I think I'm a bit younger but I remember all that too.

@GeePawHill

I'm so old I remember when "corporation" didn't mean "person".

I have some doubts about this ... how was it when they added the concept of persona ficta to roman law? Did people object?

;-)

@goedelchen @GeePawHill Indeed. Doesn't “corporation” literally mean “person”, well more like “body” as in ”corporeal”?

The problem, it seems to me, is that corporations have kept the rights of a person separate from their officers and employees but somehow managed to dump the responsibilities. I don't know the history of that happening but imagine much of it was through the 19th century.

@edavies @GeePawHill It was introduced in Roman law more than 2000 years ago.
Whatever it is, that makes you think that they managed to dump responsibilities (and I'm not disagreeing with this!) - it is not the "personhood" of corporates that did this. The concept of a "legal person" makes it possible to sue that "person". 1/..
@edavies @GeePawHill In a world, where corporates are persons, you can sue McDonalds for serving too hot coffee, hotter than every competitor, even after more than thousand complaints. You can sue McDonalds to pay hospital bills etc.
2/..
@edavies @GeePawHill
In a world without that... who would you sue? The person who hands you the coffee? Who has brewed it? The one who decided that McDonalds brews coffee that hot? Good luck in finding out who that was - esp. if it was some board or committee. Or would you sue the one who decided to ignore thousands of complaints? Same problem
3/..
@edavies @GeePawHill Dumping the concept of a legal person would mean to really dump the rest of responsibilities companies have.
IMHO, the concept *enables* companies to be held accountable. It's just not done enough.
4/4
@goedelchen @GeePawHill Yep. Companies get sued and have to pay damages. Companies get prosecuted and have to pay fines. Sometimes they're split up for anti-trust reasons. But there's no equivalent of prison (or worse) for companies - I don't think I've ever heard of a company being forced to cease trading for any action, however criminal.
@edavies @GeePawHill Enron and Arthur Andersen come to mind.
Or Theranos - I guess (didn't check) Holmes and Balwani are currently in prison.
WorldCom, Purdue Pharma, FTX...
Without the concept of "legal person" Holmes, Balwani or Ebbers (CEO of WorldCom) would go to prison (as they did), but the companies themselves couldn't have been sued, so they would have just changed CEOs.
I don't say companies are punished enough, I'm just saying not considering them "legal persons" would make it worse.

@goedelchen Fair point about Enron, etc, but I think we're talking at cross purposes. I'm not suggesting that it's a bad thing that companies are treated as “persons” to some extent - I'd agree that doing so is pretty much essential for the human race to carry out any activities involving more than a few dozen people.

What I'm suggesting is that the problem that leads to the original comment “I'm so old I remember when "corporation" didn't mean "person"” comes not from corporations being treated as people, which as you rightly point out has happened for a long time, but from the gradual drift to corporations being accepted as amoral actors single-mindedly maximising shareholder value, treating fines as just the cost of doing business and getting caught, right up to the point where they're egregiously breaking the law.

The case I have in mind is the major oil producers who not only overtly argue against action on climate change, as you might expect from any “person” whose interests are at stake, but also covertly fund arguments against the science behind the calls for action when they know from their own research that those arguments are not valid. If a real person acted in that way they'd receive social pushback even though lying isn't a crime as such. With corporations we just shrug and say well, that's what corporations do to maximise shareholder value.

@GeePawHill

@GeePawHill So anywhere between Jurassic and like, 14 years old? Depending on individual point.
Man I hate all of these things.
@GeePawHill old enough to remember that you typed LOAD "*",8,1 for good times 😎
@ekari @GeePawHill load “” here. No need to identify device. Z80 cpu.
@GeePawHill and money wasn’t free speech
@GeePawHill I'm so old I remember... uhhh... thing... *you know*!...
@GeePawHill ,I have the same privilege and I'm grateful for it.
@GeePawHill I remember when our school IT room was being expanded and the new machines were Windows NT - old ones were Win3.1. I got chided because it took two trips with a 1.4Mb floppy to migrate my files! What is all this stuff!?
I also remember that even when Google started serving ads, they were strictly contextual - not hyper personalised. They weren’t the first to target ads. They almost followed the market in that respect - before they *became* the market.
@GeePawHill I'm so old my first email address was numbers.
@GeePawHill I'm so old I remember when the dialog options were OK/Cancel, not Yes/Maybe later.
@publicvoit I am old enough to think that 32 GB RAM belongs more in a (really fast) server or in a supercomputer... not in NUC advertised for "medium office work"

@the_wiz 😆 I feel you.

However, as the prices are down that far (in relation to the prices in our historic heads), it would be not a good idea to buy a new computer with less than 32 GB of RAM.

At least for my office work, I sometimes need VMs which are much happier with more RAM. Furthermore, modern browsers and web pages sadly need lots of RAM these days ... 😔

@GeePawHill I remember writing my first program. It was for the HP-41C, in pencil on paper before keying it in. HP once made (unaffordably) well engineered hardware.
@GeePawHill You're as old as I am! Welcome to the Brave New World, pre 1984 fellow.
@GeePawHill you mean like 20 years old? forget 20 i miss 2007 to 2012 period of internet.. public forum of various kind was still active and social media and smart phone was not fully taken over.
@GeePawHill I built a thing that brings back some of those times to our blogs https://lmno.lol. Here’s my blog on it https://xenodium.com
lmno.lol

Wholesome blogs minus the yucky bits of the modern web

@xenodium Neat! I will look in to it.

@GeePawHill

I am so old I remember when America was a Nation ,and not a business corporation full of grifters.

@GeePawHill I'm so old that I remember when bitcoin hit $100. Thought it was rather a lot for a worthless bit of mathematics, but surely it would crash and burn before long.