KᑐᑌᑐᕮApr 16
Osma A 🇫🇮🇺🇦
Bluesky didn't reach a federated stage where you could choose a service provider in a free country before they started to censor people based on authoritarian demands.
Apr 16 at 6:14amWeb
Show threadMartin Vermeer FCDApr 16
@osma Good observation! One more argument for federation.
Show threadLari LohikoskiApr 16
@osma Do you know what was the censored content in this case?
Show threadOsma A 🇫🇮🇺🇦Apr 16
I don't read Turkish but presumably it had been on this profile
https://bsky.app/profile/carekavga.bsky.social
@lari
anarşik (@carekavga.bsky.social)

gt var🚩 X hesabım: @CareKavga

Bluesky Social
Show threadDisplay NameApr 16
@osma @lari i do. Literally nothing. Odd.
Show threadHyde 📷 🖋 Apr 16
@aral did you know about that ⤴️
Show threadAral BalkanApr 16
@hyde Nope. My surprise level is at 0%.
Show threadHyde 📷 🖋 Apr 16
@aral same but at least it's clear now
Show threadMisuse CaseApr 16
@aral @hyde Samesies. I called it years ago! BlueSky is centrally owned and controlled, it’s a fundamental part of the architecture, and any lip service towards or appearance of federation doesn’t really mean anything.
Show threadRupertApr 16
@MisuseCase @aral @hyde Conway's Law prevents them doing anything else.
Show threadJigme DatseApr 16
@osma Not surprised on two fronts... Not surprised they did such... Not surprised that it was requested. Somewhat surprised that they were so open about it.
Show threadKevin Karhan Apr 16

@osma OFC #BlueSky is deepthroating fash boots of #Erdogan!

#BrownSky

Show threadSnowApr 16
@kkarhan @osma Just another reason to avoid that hell hole of a X clone
Show threadKevin Karhan Apr 16
@snow @osma it's called #Shitter...
Show threadApril The Pink ⋆☾╶⃝⃤☽⋆Apr 16
@osma top then reasons why fediverse > blusky
Show threadErik Uden 🍑Apr 16
@osma Free Rojava 
Show threadCyberFrogApr 16
@osma oh hey cool they're doing exactly what I said they'd do, which is never federate and then slowly become yet another walled garden

it's literally built by the former twitter CEO, who left over arguments about federation not happening, like.... come on here...
Show threadAbhiramApr 16
@froge @osma No no, he left because they started doing content moderation and people were making fun of his beard. I'm not even joking.
Show threadAbhiramApr 16

@froge @osma I come bearing receipts: https://nypost.com/2024/05/10/tech/why-jack-dorsey-quit-bluesky-it-was-repeating-all-mistakes-twitter-made/

Over at Bluesky, “little by little, they [the users] started asking Jay [Graber, the CEO] and the team for moderation tools, and to kick people off. And unfortunately they followed through with it,” Dorsey told Pirate Wires.

Why Jack Dorsey quit Bluesky board: It was 'literally repeating all the mistakes' Twitter made

The 47-year-old tech mogul had envisioned that Twitter could be an open-source software that wasn’t controlled by any single person or entity.

New York Post
Show threadCyberFrogApr 16

@axel @osma ah yeah, he did mostly leave because he got his feelings hurt about the beard LOL

but he also specifically mentions here that the other reason was because the platform wasn't decentralized enough and was becoming "just another app"

“That was the second moment I thought, uh, nope,” Dorsey added. “This is literally repeating all the mistakes we [Twitter] made as a company. This is not a protocol that’s truly decentralized. It’s another app. It’s another app that’s just kind of following in Twitter’s footsteps, but for a different part of the population.”

Show threadAbhiramApr 16
@froge @osma clearly that was just a cover up so people wouldn't find out about his hurt beard feelings ​​
Show threadAlexApr 16
@axel @froge @osma people have moderation lists now which can be created and abused to censor people. Also, apparently some random account marked my account as some black hate account which I have no idea about, but lets be honest, what were people expecting with twitter users flocking to bluesky and doing the same shit they did on twitter?
Show threadAbhiramApr 16
@alex02 @froge@social.glitched.systems @osma Yeah, it was kinda sorta doomed right from the get go in that regard.
Show threadAlexApr 16
@axel @froge @osma I cannot wait to get banned for calling someone stupid and have to create a fifth account. 👍
Show threadAntonio Páez 🇲🇽🇨🇦Apr 16

@axel @froge @osma

Dorsey is a buffoon. He wants to invent the fediverse, which is already invented

Show threadLightApr 16
@paezha
What does he want to invent exactly?
@axel @froge @osma
Show threadAbhiramApr 16
@light @paezha @froge@social.glitched.systems @osma He basically wants to reinvent twitter but without content moderation and decentralized.
Show threadLightApr 16
@axel
What does "without content moderation mean"?
@froge @paezha @osma
Show threadAbhiramApr 16
@light @froge@social.glitched.systems @paezha @osma it almost always means being able to say slurs or other unpleasant things on main without being blockable.
Show threadLightApr 16
@axel
Blockable by whom?
I doubt he wants people to be forced to listen to content they find disturbing.
@froge @paezha @osma
Show threadAbhiramApr 16
@light @froge@social.glitched.systems @paezha @osma That's actually exactly what he wants. He even said as much some time ago.

He thinks that moderation should only be dictated algorithmically and users shouldn't control what they can/can't see. He's one of those "free speech absolutist" types. ​​
Show threadLightApr 16
@axel
That's pretty insane. Do you have a source?
I have come across some people on #Nostr who said that blocking is anti-free-speech too. To me, freedom of speech isn't the only aspect to freedom. There is also freedom of association and freedom of listening.
@froge @paezha @osma
Show threadLightApr 16
@axel
>only be dictated algorithmically
Lol wtf
@froge @paezha @osma
Show threadAbhiramApr 16
@light @froge@social.glitched.systems @paezha @osma You can read about his thoughts over here: https://web.archive.org/web/20221214000628/https://www.getrevue.co/profile/jackjack/issues/a-native-internet-protocol-for-social-media-1503112

Surprisingly the original post no longer exists, so I had to go hunting through the wayback machine for it. 😄

This was posted shortly after the whole twitter files thing happened.
a native internet protocol for social media

There’s a lot of conversation around the #TwitterFiles. Here’s my take, and thoughts on how to fix the issues identified. I’ll start with the principles I’ve come to believe…based on everything I’ve learned and experienced through my past actions as a Twitter co-founder and lead:Social media must be resilient to corporate and government control.Only the original author may remove content they produce.Moderation is best implemented by algorithmic choice.The Twitter when I led it and the Twitter …

Show threadErik JonkerApr 16
@osma ik ben blij dat ik zowel op BlueSky als Mastodon zit
Show threadMotorbike SenseiApr 16

@osma Oh dear that didn't take long, did it? And they only want to comply with the law!

Guess social media is dead, then. Extinct like the Mastodon. Oh wait.

Show threadstefanApr 16
@osma I mean you can self-host a PDS but its still a pain
Show threadombremadApr 16
@osma @stefan it’s been made nearly impossible on purpose. Who does actually host a PDS?
Show threadGunChleocApr 16

@ombremad @osma @stefan If they ban you from their relay, you can use your self-hosted PDS to talk to yourself then.

They also still control the ID centrally, no idea what the process is in that regard, they might shut you off that way too.

Show threadDJ🌞Apr 16
@osma I feel a lot of people are mighty confused what social media is about... it is a business, it is about making monies. And any business supposedly has to obey local laws to be able to make money locally or face restrictions/bans. So they will, and it does not matter whether it is an authoritarian or not as long as cash keeps flowing. All the rest is secondary and can/will be thrown under the bus as required. We've seen that a lot before, nothing new really.
Show threadStryder NotaviApr 16

@infosecdj @osma It can be a business, sure. But that's not the only, or even the best model for social media.

For example many Mastodon instances are run more like co-ops. Online communities supported directly by the users they serve rather than by those users being indirectly monetized.

And sure, those communities are still subject to local laws, but international players without jurisdiction aren't likely to have much influence.

Show threadDJ🌞Apr 16
@StryderNotavi @osma Sure thing, it can be. However, all of corpo-owned social media *is* business.
Show threadStarkRGApr 16
@osma Yeah, that was never going to happen. Commercial social media is always, *ALWAYS* going to cave in to demands from governments and advertisers. Even when they say they won't, and include it in their mission statement, privacy agreement, or whatever, they will rewrite their foundational principles, fire their ethics teams, and bend over backwards rather than ignore a demand like that.
Show threadsignal ≋ dadalo 🌊 Apr 16
@osma yes but the handle is @bsky i wonder how they will process this complaint with custom domain... "the censor" example is not good because of the things I wrote above. Not mention there is possiblity to run own PDS.
Show threadCody  Apr 16
@deep@signal.dadalo.pl @osma @bsky@signal.dadalo.pl I don't think custom domain would change anything... The data would still be hosted in their servers, therefore it's their legal responsibility to comply with local laws / face the consequences. Self hosting a PDS or using a friend's would probably work though
Show threadsignal ≋ dadalo 🌊 Apr 16

@cody

the same with shadow ban on facebook for Turkey but i wonder how it will work with own handle. They control the index so of course they can manipulate algorithm or hide... Mozilla Foundation is making second/alternative index for proto to make it more reliable and become independent of this moderation policies... but than your network will be baned in Turkey

@osma

Show threadmathewApr 16
@deep @osma Running your own PDS doesn't help, the censorship will be applied by the Relay and App View.
Show threadCody  Apr 16
@osma I... Not to defend AT proto in any way, I hate it as much as you do, but... There are literally a ton of PDS where you probably would not have gotten banned... Bluesky can only ban you on theirs afaik... I mean I would love to see an example of someone who has gotten this email whilst being on their own infrastructure... They would have to ban you at the firehose level though I think?
Show threadikutursoApr 16
@cody running a PDS doesn't really help you avoid what they've done here.
Show threadBorisApr 16
This is a moderation action that can be avoided by using third party clients (no PDS needed) that don’t subscribe to Bluesky Moderation. I’m going to see about a list.
Show threadikutursoApr 16
@bmann.ca Right, except that if a PDS was a way around it that would be better in some ways. Now you're left with everyone affected who does not bother to set up a third-party client not seeing you which almost certainly means severely limited visibility.
Show threadmathewApr 16
@bmann.ca That's only going to work if you run your own Relay and App View, and use clients that will connect to a third party App View. Otherwise you're still dependent on Bluesky not to filter the content.
Show threadCody  Apr 16
@ikuturso Does it not? I don't know what their criteria is... running a PDS would mean the content is hosted on their own server, the Bsky relay would simply be relaying it... They could still censor it at the relay level, but uhm... not sure if they would at that point? I mean at least I don't think they'd even have his email to email him to...
Show threadikutursoApr 16
@cody they did this through the moderation system so PDS won't circumvent it.
Show threadCody  Apr 16
@ikuturso what moderation system? could you link me to the docs? I don't think I get this...
Show threadCody  Apr 16
@ikuturso Like specifically I don't get into which moderation method this would fall, afaik there is only Network takedowns and global labling, I assume this would fall under Network? So do they block the UUIDs of the post? Also where would this he done if not at the relay level?