My stupid android smartphone has developed even more damage recently, so I've decided to once again to search the internet to try and find, if not a _good_ phone, at least a reliable one.
According to the internet, the winner by far is an iphone.
...Er, _no_
Ok, runner up is Samsung. *Looks down at the rubble of my worst phone yet samsung*
Ok, internet is still useless.
what about #furiphone #pinephone or #purism #librem
also wondering if one shouldn't take to the pawnshops with a printout from https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ - at least being able to flash a non-shit (and optionally degoogled) os would be a decent baseline
@unspeaker @s31bz @OpenComputeDesign @light Kind of falls afoul of my requirement to not have to study to know where the anti-user traps are burrowed. (and that i don't actually want one anyway)
But might be something for the others.
@unspeaker @s31bz @light @admitsWrongIfProven I have a pinephone and a librem 5.
They have a few problems. Mostly battery life, though they're also a bit slow and sometimes rather unstable.
Biggest problem is I do a lot of rough work, and stuff in my pocket doesn't tend to stand up well. The pinephone gives _no_ confidence of durability, and the Librem 5 feels kind of sturdy, but is so expensive and hard to get parts for, I don't even want to _consider_ risking damaging it.
@unspeaker @s31bz @light @admitsWrongIfProven
Plus, the _other_ reason I need an android, because I've been put in charge of hardware that needs proprietary apps that only run on android. So I still couldn't throw my android out like I'd like, I'd only be able to replace my old dumb phone
@light @unspeaker @s31bz @admitsWrongIfProven
Might replace my dumbphone. Although most modern "dumb phones" run KaiOS, which I'm not impressed with
@OpenComputeDesign @s31bz @light @admitsWrongIfProven
good feedback! i think #furiphone has support for #android apps (#waydroid iirc?) and back in the day so did #jolla / #sailfish - i think you can get those on a #sony these days
also i've run android-x86 in vm and its alright but idk what those apps are gonna try. supposedly only finance apps are allowed by google to check for a rooted phone but ... who knows https://peabee.substack.com/p/everyone-knows-what-apps-you-use
@OpenComputeDesign @s31bz @light @admitsWrongIfProven
anyway, #lineageos 4lyfe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfhRMGlFUdo
@light @unspeaker @OpenComputeDesign @s31bz @admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org @GrapheneOS
People try to draw a line between LineageOS and GrapheneOS. The real line in android usage is between GApps and noGApps. Every usage of Google play services is on the GApps side. #microG for me is a enhancement of the noGApps use case.
@Kurt @light @unspeaker @OpenComputeDesign @s31bz
GrapheneOS and LineageOS are in entirely different spaces. LineageOS does not preserve the standard privacy/security patches of Android or the standard privacy/security model. It's the direct opposite of GrapheneOS which greatly improves privacy and security compared to AOSP.
LineageOS, /e/OS, CalyxOS and iodéOS are non-hardened operating systems reducing privacy and security vs. the baseline of AOSP. GrapheneOS is the opposite, to an extreme.
@Kurt @light @unspeaker @OpenComputeDesign @s31bz
Contrary to what you believe, by using microG you are using the Google Play code on your device. Each app which depends on Google Play services is still using the Google Play SDK and libraries on your device. Many of those libraries partially or fully work without Google Play services and they can make connections to Google services without it. microG itself still uses various Google services and even downloads certain Google binaries to run.
@Kurt @light @unspeaker @OpenComputeDesign @s31bz
LineageOS and other operating systems integrating microG are integrating privileged support for Google services into the OS. They also generally add privileged integration for Android Auto and other Google apps. GrapheneOS doesn't do that but rather does not provide Google apps and services with a special status and privileged access. We take a different approach to compatibility where we still reimplement things like Google's location service.
@Kurt @light @unspeaker @OpenComputeDesign @s31bz
https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm is a privacy focused third party comparison between Android-based operating systems which you should look at to see how different the others are from GrapheneOS.
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/113459782313987260 is a recent thread you can read about why we made our own sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer including our own reimplementation of the Google location service based on the OS service. We also have our own network location now.
@Kurt @light @unspeaker @OpenComputeDesign @s31bz In GrapheneOS, features like network location are built into the OS without being tied to the sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer. Our compatibility layer redirects requests to OS services from within the apps themselves.
Bear in mind you are using Google Play code when you use apps depending on it. Our approach simply allows installing'running the rest in the standard app sandbox without the need for users to grant permissions to it.
@GrapheneOS @Kurt @light @unspeaker @s31bz
Wow, that was all _super_ informative.
I don't consider android to be an OS worth even _trying_ to salvage.
But I know there are people who _do_ like the concept, so I applaud the effort.
Besides, I'm to stupid to fully understand it all, let alone actually implement any of it :P
@OpenComputeDesign @Kurt @light @unspeaker @s31bz
Android Open Source Project is a far better starting point for privacy and security than the desktop Linux software stack. The software stack you're using is far less private and secure without even the basics provided such as a working mandatory application sandbox and permission model.
Pinephone and Librem 5 which you brought up above both have atrocious hardware and firmware security not even coming close to meeting our listed requirements.
@OpenComputeDesign @Kurt @light @unspeaker @s31bz
The reality is that Purism is an anti-security company that's entirely based around gaming an illogical definition of openness where having more closed hardware and firmware is somehow better if users can't update the firmware on it. That is what they do with their products. They choose components which are far less secure because they have firmware stored on them and don't need the OS to load/update it, and then they don't update it.
@OpenComputeDesign @Kurt @light @unspeaker @s31bz
In reality, that approach does not make things more open but rather less open, particularly when Purism goes out of the way to block updating firmware components by disabling or not setting up support for updates. All their approach does is ensure insecurity through not being able to apply critical severity patches. Their hardware and firmware also fails to provide basic industry standard exploit mitigations and other security features.
@OpenComputeDesign @Kurt @light @unspeaker @s31bz
Pinephone isn't deliberately crippled like the Librem 5 but is similar in having atrocious hardware and firmware security. We have a clear list of security and other requirements at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices and neither of those 2 devices even comes close to providing it. They're missing far more than something like a low-end Motorola device for the Indian market. There isn't substance behind their privacy and security claims at all.
@OpenComputeDesign @Kurt @light @unspeaker @s31bz
Kill switches can be useful as a last resort for a compromised device where an attacker has obtained all the user's photos, videos, documents, passwords, login sessions, keys, chat logs, browser history, etc. but only if they're properly implemented, and only when the user has them disabled so they won't stop recording all calls, everything done with the camera, etc. Neither Pinephone or the Librem 5 properly implements this anyway.
@GrapheneOS @Kurt @light @unspeaker @s31bz
Fair, but from a userland perspective, android is a worse experience than windows mobile. Even the (lets be honest) alpha at best state of Mobian or pmOS with Phosh or Plasma Mobile, they're still a better experience than android.
I don't have the energy for privacy and security that I should. E.G. I re use passwords, delay updates, turn off disk encryption, etc. Because I simply _cannot_ fathom the effort. I prioritize usability, which android lacks
@OpenComputeDesign @Kurt @light @unspeaker @s31bz
Your claims about this are extraordinarily inaccurate and warped. You're using far less private, secure, usable and compatible operating systems while coming up with retroactive justifications for it which are not true. Those are clearly the opposite of a better experience. They are not stable, do not have basic features implemented, have a far worse user interface, etc. It doesn't sound like you've even used what you're comparing to.
@GrapheneOS @Kurt @light @unspeaker @s31bz It's true I've not used grapheneOS. Or even Lineage OS
To be fair I _have_ tried, unsuccessfully.
I have (begrudgingly) carried an android phone every day for the last like 6 years. At first I was excited, that, quickly wore away. The last few phones I've had have each been worse than the last, actively loosing _essential_ features. At this point, android is a worse base than windows phone (distinct from windows mobile, better ui, worse underpinnings)
@OpenComputeDesign @Kurt @light @unspeaker @s31bz
Have you actually used a modern operating system based on AOSP without a horrible OEM UI overhaul and all kinds of other changes from them? It seems the answer is clearly no. How can you compare to something you've never even used?
Nearly anyone who has used both would vehemently disagree even if they supported bringing that desktop stack to mobile, which is extremely counterproductive from a privacy and security perspective.
@markasspandi @GrapheneOS @s31bz @unspeaker @light @Kurt
Because android is just _that_ shit ;)
@light @unspeaker @OpenComputeDesign @s31bz
I was sure that would trigger grapheneOS.
OpenComputeDesign
S31bz
stateful being
NHUIA 
🅰️ ®️ ✝️
Light
Kurt
GrapheneOS
MarkAssPandi (tiny)