Jon WorthMar 28, 2025

Welcome to today's thread - #CrossChannelRail Day 12 - 28 March - Den Haag - Amsterdam - Bruxelles

On the agenda today:
Stations
Amsterdam Zuid
Amsterdam Centraal
Rotterdam Centraal

Companies
Eurostar (NL route)

Today's routes on the routes map: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#8/51.620/4.639

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
Here’s this morning‘s #CrossChannelRail intro https://peertube.netzbegruenung.de/w/tq6vxJng9j8baFayev2DiP
#CrossChannelRail live stream - 3/28/2025, 8:06:50 AM

PeerTube
Show threadJon Worth
Kebab cat 🐈‍⬛ #CrossChannelRail
Mar 28, 2025 at 9:59amWeb
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025

Rotterdam Centraal #CrossChannelRail

This is the interesting one

Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
What they do for Eurostar at Rotterdam is both amazing and absurd. It was totally worth spending the time to check this in detail. #CrossChannelRail
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025

Due to the Belgian rail strike I am delayed getting to Brussels, but will be at the #CrossChannelRail event at ALoft at 17:30

https://crossborderrail.trainsforeurope.eu/projects/crosschannelrail/crosschannelrail-2025-events/

Come along for a beer at the end of your work day and discuss this crazy project!

#CrossChannelRail 2025 - Events - #CrossBorderRail

Throughout the #CrossChannelRail project there are a series of events – all of which are free to attend.   Monday 17 March, Bordeaux Event type: formal public event about the future of railways in Europe, together with Hourrail (present) and Tilly Metz MEP (via video) Web stream: tbc Language: French […]

#CrossBorderRail
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025

Right then, #CrossChannelRail provisional thoughts about Amsterdam and Rotterdam

I spent a couple of hours looking at all of this today, and was even able to get a behind the scenes look at the terminals, thanks to Eurostar

The setup is both amazingly clever, and absurd - because the requirements are that absurd

Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025

Amsterdam Centraal first

The new terminal - still only half finished - will have capacity for 600 passengers, and will be running in full from later this spring (once some platform works - that are resulting in a temporary suspension of Eurostar services) - are done

The terminal is bright, airy, well built, and makes an excellent impression. And all this is especially good, given it’s underground and there are no windows.

Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025

Some things feel really provisional still - especially the access to the lift to the platforms which leads past the rubbish bins for the shops in the station!

Also as check-in will be 90 mins before departure, that realistically means a train every 2 hours to London, max

Eurostar aims to run 5 trains a day later in the year, leaving 2 or 3 slots for others - were they to want them

Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025

Then to Rotterdam

Here the terminal - located in what was an office space on Platform 2 - has a capacity for 165 passengers

Passengers stay in the terminal until a minute or two before the train arrives

The platform is "sanitised" and then split into two - doors only open on the back half of the Eurostar, and that part of the platform is secured

Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025

This whole process needs a dozen security staff to check the platform, and make sure no one manages to access the platform in the 30 minutes before the train arrives, and until it departs

Yes it works, but it's hellish costly and labour intensive!

The *advantage* of this system is it allows the platform to be used by regular trains in between - and this model you could copy for stations in - say - Switzerland

Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
All of this, together with the capacity constraints between Antwerpen and Bruxelles that apply to all trains, means that *despite* these clever terminal solutions I cannot see any rival to Eurostar possibly wanting to try Amsterdam or Rotterdam - it's all too complex and costly, even though the terminals are present
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
Here’s today‘s #CrossChannelRail summary. Also today with a live audience! https://peertube.netzbegruenung.de/w/hFXV3SFdoFrASfpQtsnqi2
#CrossChannelRail live stream - 3/28/2025, 7:11:34 PM

PeerTube
Show threadJon WorthApr 7, 2025

#CrossChannelRail Train 53 of 72
IC 3535
09:43 Den Haag Centraal - Amsterdam Zuid 10:22
NS

Train type: Talbot VIRM EMU, 4 double deck carriages
⚡️ (1.5kV dc)
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅ (lift or ramp on platform)
🛜: ✅
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 😐 (newer VIRM design - better than the old design, but still not great)
🧽: 🙂 (grimy outside)

Show threadJon WorthApr 7, 2025

IC 3535
09:43 Den Haag Centraal - Amsterdam Zuid 10:22

Distance: 51.4km
Average speed: 79km/h

3 stops:
Leiden Centraal
Schiphol
Amsterdam Zuid

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#10/52.2341/4.4968

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap
Show threadJon WorthApr 7, 2025

#CrossChannelRail Bike 15 of 25
Amsterdam Zuid - Amsterdam Centraal via Watergraafsmeer

Distance: 11.9km
Est. duration: 0:45

This bike route, mapped on Komoot: https://www.komoot.com/de-de/tour/2122571115

#CrossChannelRail Amsterdam Zuid - Watergraafsmeer - Centraal (11.9 km) | Fahrradtour | Komoot

Jon Worth hat ein Outdoor-Abenteuer mit komoot gemacht! Distanz: 11,9 km | Dauer: 00:54 Std

komoot
Show threadJon WorthApr 7, 2025

#CrossChannelRail Train Metro 1 of 1
M 52
12:16 Amsterdam Centraal - Amsterdam Zuid 12:26
GVB

Train type: Alstom Metropolis M5 Metro EMU, 6 carriages
⚡️ (750V dc third rail)
🚲: ✅ (only off peak)
🦽: ✅
🛜: ⛔️
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 🙂 (spacious cabin)
🧽: 🙂

Show threadJon WorthApr 7, 2025

M 52
12:16 Amsterdam Centraal - Amsterdam Zuid 12:26

Distance: 5.9km
Average speed: 35km/h

5 stops:
Rokin
Vijzelgracht
De Pijp
Europaplein
Amsterdam Zuid

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#14/52.3586/4.8875

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap
Show threadJon WorthApr 7, 2025

#CrossChannelRail Train 54 of 72
ICD 2438
12:34 Amsterdam Zuid - Rotterdam Centraal 13:08
NS

Train type: Alstom ICNG EMU, 8 short carriages
⚡️ (1.5kV dc, then 25kV ac, then 1.5kV dc)
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅ (step free in theory, but platform edge at Zuid a bit low)
🛜: ✅
🍽️: ⛔
🧳: 🙂️
🧽: 😐 (grimy outside)️

Show threadJon WorthApr 7, 2025

ICD 2438
12:34 Amsterdam Zuid - Rotterdam Centraal 13:08

Distance: 62.2km
Average speed: 110km/h

2 stops:
Schiphol
Rotterdam Centraal

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#11/52.1313/4.6562

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap
Show threadJon WorthApr 7, 2025

#CrossChannelRail Train 55 of 72
EC 9244
15:09 Rotterdam Centraal - Bruxelles Central 17:12
NS & SNCB

Train type: TRAXX locomotives top and tailing 6 Eurocity carriages
⚡️ (1.5kV dc, then 25kV ac, then 1.5kV dc, then 25kV ac, then 3kV dc)
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅ (lift or ramp on platform)
🛜: ⛔️
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 😐 (overhead racks are huge, but if your luggage doesn't fit on those you're stuck)
🧽: 🙂

Show threadJon WorthApr 7, 2025

EC 9244
15:09 Rotterdam Centraal - Bruxelles Central 17:12

Distance: 155.1km
Average speed: 76km/h

8 stops:
Breda
Noorderkempen
Antwerpen Centraal
Antwerpen-Berchem
Mechelen
Brussels Airport - Zaventem
Bruxelles-Nord
Bruxelles-Central

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#8/51.514/4.540

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap
Show threadQuixoticgeekApr 7, 2025
@jon how long are you in town ?
Show threadJon WorthApr 7, 2025
@quixoticgeek I'm not. These are updates from last week where I was missing the stats!
Show threadQuixoticgeekApr 7, 2025
@jon ah. That makes sense.
Show threadDubious BlurApr 7, 2025
@jon there is or was a bug in the ICNG firmware giving us such delights as
Show threadsijmenApr 7, 2025
@dubiousblur @jon i especially appreciate the "Eurostar naar" text, indicating it is in fact aware that it's supposed to be an Eurostar, but still showing the NS theme
Show threadMartin Schröder 🇺🇳Mar 28, 2025
@jon
Again, the video is cut a bit too short. But have fun!
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
@oneiros these Peertube live streams are annoyingly unreliable. I’m not sure what I can do about it though - other than making sure the net connection is faster!
Show threadKneonspaceMar 28, 2025

@jon the bureaucracy mandated by mostly the British, that the fully checked trains require together with the safety requirements of the channel tunnel really make running cost and time competitive (with flights) trains to the UK very difficult and almost impossible.

That there aren't any competitors on the Amsterdam to Paris routes always felt strange to me. (might be ns international having a concession on the high speed line) I think competition on this line is a lot more likely.

Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
@kneonspace Amsterdam - Paris really needs competition!
Show threadDavid LinssenMar 29, 2025
@jon So what about Den Haag CS? Did you manage to check it out? Could a Eurostar rival set up shop there? Physically, maybe, I expect, but The Netherlands still has a shortage of qualified KMAR (Royal Marechaussee, our Border Patrol) so manning a third rail terminal could be tricky https://archive.is/pEZ2X
Show threadJon WorthMar 29, 2025
@davidlinssen HS works. Not Centraal.
Show threadLasse GerritsMar 31, 2025
@jon A bit late to this (I know you have already move on) - but R'dam has always perplexed me. The entire station was rebuilt on the argument of 'more international trains', and yet they didn't anticipate anything in terms of logistics. Sure, Brexit is to blame for all the customs fanfare, but there was an A-class opportunity to design the passenger and workflows properly.
Show threadLasse GerritsMar 31, 2025

@jon Hell, they even decided to remove the original track 1 just after the new station was delivered. And that office-cum-Eurostar lounge? A weird and cramped contraption on multiple levels.

Rant over, just had to get that off my chest (I'm located in Rotterdam).

Eurostar and the Dutch gov't are still bickering about the costs of running this operation. As in so many other ways, Brexit was a bad idea.

Good luck with the rest of the project!

Show threadJon WorthMar 31, 2025
@lasse In short: yes they rebuilt without thinking of channel tunnel services.
Show threadSven UlemanMar 28, 2025
And how about starting/picking up passengers on stations closeby Amsterdam/Rotterdam, say Amersfoort/Zaandam, Schiedam, and what other cities in the surrounding.
Show threadDavid LinssenMar 28, 2025
@jon Wait, what? 90 minutes in advance? WHYYYY? Is that because of the number of Border Control agents?
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
@davidlinssen 90 mins max. 30 mins min.
Show threadDavid LinssenMar 28, 2025
@jon That seems fair
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
@davidlinssen Yes, given the constraints imposed by the UK border paranoia, it is.
Show threadCycling on RailsMar 28, 2025

@jon Speaking of the 90 minutes, have you gotten (or will you) the chance to discuss whether reducing that would be feasible? Of course if all 1000 passengers show up 5 minutes before departure it doesn't work, but looking at airport checks or e.g. luggage-only checks in Spain the queue is far from that long.

I guess it would mean e.g. doubling passport booths & staff, but if there were also twice as many trains that'd make sense? I can't see needing 90 mins to check 165 people in Rotterdam.

Show threaddavidnicolMar 29, 2025
@jon when you say that the requirements are absurd, who is responsible for the absurd requirements, and can you give us an example?
Show threadJon WorthMar 29, 2025
@davidnicol UK. The need to check passports before boarding is absurd.
Show threadMaartjeMar 28, 2025
@jon look i can get to Brussels but never back due to the strike 😅
Show threadCycling on RailsMar 28, 2025
@jon You can't pause the thread like this on such a cliffhanger! Mastodon wants to know! 😂
Show threadMFierstMar 28, 2025
@cycling_on_rails @jon
😄
I bet it is becoming a soap.
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
@mfierst @cycling_on_rails I’ve been freezing on the platform at Rotterdam. Will analyse it all once I’ve defrosted.
Show threadWalter van HolstMar 28, 2025
@jon How long will you be around?
Show threadWalter van HolstMar 28, 2025
@jon Also, ask your hosts why hey did not use the postal terminal next door to the station for this instead of sacrificing so much space in the main station for this.
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
@whvholst heading to Bruxelles in 30 mins
Show threadWalter van HolstMar 28, 2025
@jon Ah, no time to drop by and say hi then.
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
@whvholst no, sorry! You’re based in Rotterdam, or close? (So I know for next time!)
Show threadMartin HoffmannMar 28, 2025
@jon Hey, you are about two hundred metres from our office!
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
@partim I wanted to check the scale of the maintenance facilities there. Large is the answer 😀
Show threadMartin HoffmannMar 28, 2025
@jon There’s always something fun going on there. It is a pity that the passage to Science Park station is a tunnel and not a foot bridge with better views.
Show threadGreg HillsMar 28, 2025
@jon She looks well fed!
Show threadrumiMar 28, 2025
@jon je ne regarde pas assez Karambolage pour savoir dans quel pays est ce kebab, enfin ça s'appele doner, ça devrai êtr eun indice, mais l'autre jour j'ai appris qu'à paris les gens appellent ça un grec, alors comment savoir si en alsace ils appellent pas ça un doner ...
Show threadrumiMar 28, 2025
@jon Ah mais je peux lire plus haut, NL
Si vous passez à Amsterdam, j'ai beaucoup apprécié Beste Donner:
Dapperstraat 4, 1093 BT Amsterdam, Netherlands
Show threadJon WorthMar 28, 2025
@rumi I just thought the sign was funny!