Welcome to today's thread - #CrossChannelRail Day 12 - 28 March - Den Haag - Amsterdam - Bruxelles

On the agenda today:
Stations
Amsterdam Zuid
Amsterdam Centraal
Rotterdam Centraal

Companies
Eurostar (NL route)

Today's routes on the routes map: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#8/51.620/4.639

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap
#CrossChannelRail live stream - 3/28/2025, 8:06:50 AM

PeerTube
Kebab cat 🐈‍⬛ #CrossChannelRail

Rotterdam Centraal #CrossChannelRail

This is the interesting one

What they do for Eurostar at Rotterdam is both amazing and absurd. It was totally worth spending the time to check this in detail. #CrossChannelRail

Due to the Belgian rail strike I am delayed getting to Brussels, but will be at the #CrossChannelRail event at ALoft at 17:30

https://crossborderrail.trainsforeurope.eu/projects/crosschannelrail/crosschannelrail-2025-events/

Come along for a beer at the end of your work day and discuss this crazy project!

#CrossChannelRail 2025 - Events - #CrossBorderRail

Throughout the #CrossChannelRail project there are a series of events – all of which are free to attend.   Monday 17 March, Bordeaux Event type: formal public event about the future of railways in Europe, together with Hourrail (present) and Tilly Metz MEP (via video) Web stream: tbc Language: French […]

#CrossBorderRail

Right then, #CrossChannelRail provisional thoughts about Amsterdam and Rotterdam

I spent a couple of hours looking at all of this today, and was even able to get a behind the scenes look at the terminals, thanks to Eurostar

The setup is both amazingly clever, and absurd - because the requirements are that absurd

Amsterdam Centraal first

The new terminal - still only half finished - will have capacity for 600 passengers, and will be running in full from later this spring (once some platform works - that are resulting in a temporary suspension of Eurostar services) - are done

The terminal is bright, airy, well built, and makes an excellent impression. And all this is especially good, given it’s underground and there are no windows.

Some things feel really provisional still - especially the access to the lift to the platforms which leads past the rubbish bins for the shops in the station!

Also as check-in will be 90 mins before departure, that realistically means a train every 2 hours to London, max

Eurostar aims to run 5 trains a day later in the year, leaving 2 or 3 slots for others - were they to want them

Then to Rotterdam

Here the terminal - located in what was an office space on Platform 2 - has a capacity for 165 passengers

Passengers stay in the terminal until a minute or two before the train arrives

The platform is "sanitised" and then split into two - doors only open on the back half of the Eurostar, and that part of the platform is secured

This whole process needs a dozen security staff to check the platform, and make sure no one manages to access the platform in the 30 minutes before the train arrives, and until it departs

Yes it works, but it's hellish costly and labour intensive!

The *advantage* of this system is it allows the platform to be used by regular trains in between - and this model you could copy for stations in - say - Switzerland

All of this, together with the capacity constraints between Antwerpen and Bruxelles that apply to all trains, means that *despite* these clever terminal solutions I cannot see any rival to Eurostar possibly wanting to try Amsterdam or Rotterdam - it's all too complex and costly, even though the terminals are present
Here’s today‘s #CrossChannelRail summary. Also today with a live audience! https://peertube.netzbegruenung.de/w/hFXV3SFdoFrASfpQtsnqi2
#CrossChannelRail live stream - 3/28/2025, 7:11:34 PM

PeerTube

#CrossChannelRail Train 53 of 72
IC 3535
09:43 Den Haag Centraal - Amsterdam Zuid 10:22
NS

Train type: Talbot VIRM EMU, 4 double deck carriages
⚡️ (1.5kV dc)
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅ (lift or ramp on platform)
🛜: ✅
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 😐 (newer VIRM design - better than the old design, but still not great)
🧽: 🙂 (grimy outside)

IC 3535
09:43 Den Haag Centraal - Amsterdam Zuid 10:22

Distance: 51.4km
Average speed: 79km/h

3 stops:
Leiden Centraal
Schiphol
Amsterdam Zuid

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#10/52.2341/4.4968

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap

#CrossChannelRail Bike 15 of 25
Amsterdam Zuid - Amsterdam Centraal via Watergraafsmeer

Distance: 11.9km
Est. duration: 0:45

This bike route, mapped on Komoot: https://www.komoot.com/de-de/tour/2122571115

#CrossChannelRail Amsterdam Zuid - Watergraafsmeer - Centraal (11.9 km) | Fahrradtour | Komoot

Jon Worth hat ein Outdoor-Abenteuer mit komoot gemacht! Distanz: 11,9 km | Dauer: 00:54 Std

komoot

#CrossChannelRail Train Metro 1 of 1
M 52
12:16 Amsterdam Centraal - Amsterdam Zuid 12:26
GVB

Train type: Alstom Metropolis M5 Metro EMU, 6 carriages
⚡️ (750V dc third rail)
🚲: ✅ (only off peak)
🦽: ✅
🛜: ⛔️
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 🙂 (spacious cabin)
🧽: 🙂

M 52
12:16 Amsterdam Centraal - Amsterdam Zuid 12:26

Distance: 5.9km
Average speed: 35km/h

5 stops:
Rokin
Vijzelgracht
De Pijp
Europaplein
Amsterdam Zuid

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#14/52.3586/4.8875

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap

#CrossChannelRail Train 54 of 72
ICD 2438
12:34 Amsterdam Zuid - Rotterdam Centraal 13:08
NS

Train type: Alstom ICNG EMU, 8 short carriages
⚡️ (1.5kV dc, then 25kV ac, then 1.5kV dc)
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅ (step free in theory, but platform edge at Zuid a bit low)
🛜: ✅
🍽️: ⛔
🧳: 🙂️
🧽: 😐 (grimy outside)️

ICD 2438
12:34 Amsterdam Zuid - Rotterdam Centraal 13:08

Distance: 62.2km
Average speed: 110km/h

2 stops:
Schiphol
Rotterdam Centraal

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#11/52.1313/4.6562

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap

#CrossChannelRail Train 55 of 72
EC 9244
15:09 Rotterdam Centraal - Bruxelles Central 17:12
NS & SNCB

Train type: TRAXX locomotives top and tailing 6 Eurocity carriages
⚡️ (1.5kV dc, then 25kV ac, then 1.5kV dc, then 25kV ac, then 3kV dc)
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅ (lift or ramp on platform)
🛜: ⛔️
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 😐 (overhead racks are huge, but if your luggage doesn't fit on those you're stuck)
🧽: 🙂

EC 9244
15:09 Rotterdam Centraal - Bruxelles Central 17:12

Distance: 155.1km
Average speed: 76km/h

8 stops:
Breda
Noorderkempen
Antwerpen Centraal
Antwerpen-Berchem
Mechelen
Brussels Airport - Zaventem
Bruxelles-Nord
Bruxelles-Central

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crosschannelrail-2025_1148540#8/51.514/4.540

#CrossChannelRail 2025

Draft route for Jon Worth's #CrossChannelRail project in spring 2025. Dates for each leg of the trip are shown on each layer. Route colours alternate each day - yellows one day, purples the next, each train with a slightly different shade. Pins in the map show the locations to be visited.

uMap
@jon how long are you in town ?
@quixoticgeek I'm not. These are updates from last week where I was missing the stats!
@jon ah. That makes sense.
@jon there is or was a bug in the ICNG firmware giving us such delights as
@dubiousblur @jon i especially appreciate the "Eurostar naar" text, indicating it is in fact aware that it's supposed to be an Eurostar, but still showing the NS theme
@jon
Again, the video is cut a bit too short. But have fun!
@oneiros these Peertube live streams are annoyingly unreliable. I’m not sure what I can do about it though - other than making sure the net connection is faster!

@jon the bureaucracy mandated by mostly the British, that the fully checked trains require together with the safety requirements of the channel tunnel really make running cost and time competitive (with flights) trains to the UK very difficult and almost impossible.

That there aren't any competitors on the Amsterdam to Paris routes always felt strange to me. (might be ns international having a concession on the high speed line) I think competition on this line is a lot more likely.

@kneonspace Amsterdam - Paris really needs competition!
@jon So what about Den Haag CS? Did you manage to check it out? Could a Eurostar rival set up shop there? Physically, maybe, I expect, but The Netherlands still has a shortage of qualified KMAR (Royal Marechaussee, our Border Patrol) so manning a third rail terminal could be tricky https://archive.is/pEZ2X
@jon A bit late to this (I know you have already move on) - but R'dam has always perplexed me. The entire station was rebuilt on the argument of 'more international trains', and yet they didn't anticipate anything in terms of logistics. Sure, Brexit is to blame for all the customs fanfare, but there was an A-class opportunity to design the passenger and workflows properly.

@jon Hell, they even decided to remove the original track 1 just after the new station was delivered. And that office-cum-Eurostar lounge? A weird and cramped contraption on multiple levels.

Rant over, just had to get that off my chest (I'm located in Rotterdam).

Eurostar and the Dutch gov't are still bickering about the costs of running this operation. As in so many other ways, Brexit was a bad idea.

Good luck with the rest of the project!

@lasse In short: yes they rebuilt without thinking of channel tunnel services.